England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[Fuzzy du Plessis]

Sinckler: 2 carries, 2 metres made and 2 penalties conceded. Passenger, penalty magnet, etc, etc...

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Sinckler: 2 carries, 2 metres made and 2 penalties conceded. Passenger, penalty magnet, etc, etc...

I thought he was better than last week (although that's not saying a huge amount). His carries didn't make many metres but they were physical and noticeable which is more than can be said for most. Was pretty physical in defence as well. He just can't handle coming up against a good scrummaging loosehead; both weeks when Kitschoff's come on he's been demolished.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's interesting I can't really remember that many Age grade captains who are currently international standard.

I'm struggling to remember any captains other than Itoje. Who else have we had in recent years?
I think Gray? Ford/Farrell (think one of those two captained their year together didn't they?)

 

[ratsapprentice]

Mallinder, Braley, Earl, Clifford, Walker (Jack's older brother)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Seems like in the age grades they just pick the best player to be captain rather than the player who's actually got the qualities to be a captain.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Mallinder, Braley, Earl, Clifford, Walker (Jack's older brother)

....grim

 

[ratsapprentice]

Seems like in the age grades they just pick the best player to be captain rather than the player who's actually got the qualities to be a captain.

They definitely don't.

Braley wasn't even first choice.

Underhill was u18 captain.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genge (knee injury) and Mako (agreed pre-tour, wife is due to give birth) have flown home

Hepburn called up.

Was impressed with Hepburn during the 6N, will be interesting to see how he matches up to a bokke pack cause he is a pretty small loosehead by today's standards.
If makos leaving was pre planned it does beg the question why Hepburn wasn't flown out the instant Genge hurt his knee

 

[ratsapprentice]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b694nc

Can see why he's annoyed TBH - two interviews in a row where he's asked in so many words if he's the right man in charge.
Again asking him if he's happy with being based in Durban - he's already explained the reasoning.
Chris Jones' fairly strident statement that being in Durban was definitely a mistake is annoying too.
You can hear the indignance in his voice - particularly in the talk with Chapman afterwards.
He says it himself - it's hysterical.

Altitude is a massive red-herring.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b694nc

Can see why he's annoyed TBH - two interviews in a row where he's asked in so many words if he's the right man in charge.
Again asking him if he's happy with being based in Durban - he's already explained the reasoning.
Chris Jones' fairly strident statement that being in Durban was definitely a mistake is annoying too.
You can hear the indignance in his voice - particularly in the talk with Chapman afterwards.
He says it himself - it's hysterical.

Altitude is a massive red-herring.

It isn't a massive red herring, although it isn't anywhere near the main problem.
BUT hearing what some of the pros are saying, really Eddie would have been needing to train at altitude for 4 + weeks, and he doesn't have that time to do it with the way the system is set-up.


I have to say the past month or so I have done a complete 180 on my Prem/National team stance.
The whole foundation of England rugby is in a bad shape, and whilst we have the most competitive league only a couple clubs are self sustainable.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It isn't a massive red herring, although it isn't anywhere near the main problem.
BUT hearing what some of the pros are saying, really Eddie would have been needing to train at altitude for 4 + weeks, and he doesn't have that time to do it with the way the system is set-up.

That's why it's a red-herring. If the players were obviously blowing out of their arses after 20 mins it would possibly be a subject of criticism, but really... in neither tests has that been the case.
If anything - their fitness at altitude has been impressive.

Listen to the way he talks about it... because noted altitude expert Matt Dawson questioned it, that's the reason they lost the game. Burn Eddie.
It wilfully ignores the fact that there isn't one universally regarded methodology for dealing with altitude in a short period.

 

[Pom in Exile]

I'm struggling to remember any captains other than Itoje. Who else have we had in recent years?
I think Gray? Ford/Farrell (think one of those two captained their year together didn't they?)

Cowan-Dickie?

 

[Which Tyler]

BUT hearing what some of the pros are saying, really Eddie would have been needing to train at altitude for 4 + weeks, and he doesn't have that time to do it with the way the system is set-up.

The details are not universally agreed - laregly as every individual is different, and the numbers can also change with repeated exposure to altitude but...

It's absolutely agreed that anywhere between 2 days and 2 weeks is actively detrimental; for some the 2 days can be as low as 1/2 a day, whilst for others, the 2 weeks can be as long as 4 weeks. Those times are the break-even and represent the outliers. Rugby is a team game, so you can't tailor this to the individual, I'd argue (and think I did earlier in the thread) that anything between 24 hours and 21 days as an active detriment to the team

 

[Big_Grumper]

Altitude is a massive red-herring.

Agreed. We'd still be crap if we had been based ourselves on the Highveld, atop Mt Kilimanjaro or even the moon.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Cowan-Dickie?

Clifford captained LCD

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Billy out

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Re-fractured his arm. Looks like he's turning into Manu with his injury record. So he'll be on the plane home with Mako and Genge.

It's been said on here before - Jones has to create a game plan which doesn't just rely on Binny and then when he's not available a poorer version in Hughes to slot in and play the same game.

So for the he third test we could see Shields moved to 8 and Robshaw back at 6? With Curry staying at 7.

 

[Chief Pete]

He just can't handle coming up against a good scrummaging loosehead; both weeks when Kitschoff's come on he's been demolished.

Couldn't agree more, he's a perfect impact replacement but not a starter IMO.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Cowan-Dickie?

See above. Doesn't strike me as captaincy material anyway.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Would much rather Wilson came in that Robshaw.