England EPS 2016/17 season.

[ratsapprentice]

They're talking about self-regulating the 5 year thing, WT.

 

[Which Tyler]

They're talking about self-regulating the 5 year thing, WT.

That'll teach me to actually follow links before commenting*


Of course it won't, that'd be silly

 

[ratsapprentice]

Jones saying that anyone who replaces Brown at FB will need to have serious pace - name-checks Watson and Daly.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would have Haley ahead of Daly.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Would have Haley ahead of Daly.

Agree. Whoever goes there should be playing there every week for their club.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Agree. Whoever goes there should be playing there every week for their club.

Just like Farrell at 12? Or Itoje at 6.

These are professional rugby players, Watson and Daly have enough experience to play 15 for England. Loads of other counties move FB/ wingers around, if they are the best player for the job then why not?

 

[BPM]

I also saw Eddie reference the possibility of Lozowski as a 12 or 15. On recent evidence either/both could be interesting.

in an ideal world, all of the EPS players would be being used in the same roles for club and country, but in practice it doesn't work like that and to take living sacrifice's point, players of an international calibre should be able to adapt within reason. It's not like we're suggesting Jonny May plays flanker ...

 

[Lé Ddanno]

It's not like we're suggesting Jonny May plays flanker ...

I am. Purely for the look on Mako's face.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just like Farrell at 12? Or Itoje at 6.

These are professional rugby players, Watson and Daly have enough experience to play 15 for England. Loads of other counties move FB/ wingers around, if they are the best player for the job then why not?

I agree with both of you! But there's no doubt that Fazlet would be a better 12 if he played there every week for Sarries. 95% of the time it's fine, but it does mean that there will be occasions where the player has to take a split second to think rather than act instinctively. And the top teams will probe that.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Just like Farrell at 12? Or Itoje at 6.

These are professional rugby players, Watson and Daly have enough experience to play 15 for England. Loads of other counties move FB/ wingers around, if they are the best player for the job then why not?

Itoje at 6? Every game he's started has been at 4. Not sure what your point is there...

Would also argue that there is much less difference between 10 and 12 or 4 and 6 than there is between 13 and 15.

 

[ALJ]

I agree with both of you! But there's no doubt that Fazlet would be a better 12 if he played there every week for Sarries. 95% of the time it's fine, but it does mean that there will be occasions where the player has to take a split second to think rather than act instinctively. And the top teams will probe that.

He has spent a lot of time there at club level though and it's not like he hasn't faced top sides at international level.
I'm not sure Farrell is anyone's ideal choice at 12 but he certainly hasn't let anyone down.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just using Faz as an example. He's the best option we've got there atm, but round pegs, round holes where possible.

 

[Peat]

Itoje at 6? Every game he's started has been at 4. Not sure what your point is there...

Would also argue that there is much less difference between 10 and 12 or 4 and 6 than there is between 13 and 15.

That may not be true come end of this 6N; it would almost certainly already not be true if he hadn't got injured last window.

And while that's probably true, someone who plays 15 well can slide back there no worries when needed based on what I've seen.

Think I agree with Old Hooker here too. Round pegs for round holes where you can but good players can slide around and sometimes that's best.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Think I agree with Old Hooker here too. Round pegs for round holes where you can but good players can slide around and sometimes that's best.

Thricing this.

It's a fundamental principle of selection.

 

[j'nuh]

Some changes are superficial, especially in the second row/back row. Technically, a position in the pack only affects where you line up in the scrum; there's no reason you can't specialise an 8 at fetching, a ball carrying 5, a lineout general at 7 etc. Haskell at 6 and Robshaw at 7 isn't fundamentally different from Robshaw at 6 and Haskell at 7, if their roles don't change when they move positions.

But amongst the backs it's a different kettle of fish because of the rigidity of positioning IMO. Simply moving from one wing to another means having to change the shoulder you tackle with, the angle when kicking into touch, the direction you pass in, even the type of attacking positions you get into etc. I generally think it takes something exceptional for someone to be moved to a position they are unfamiliar with and make a success of it at international level. I still think Sharples was hard done by since he was put on an unfamiliar wing for England and struggled and never capped again.

 

[Peat]

Technically it doesn't make too much difference but the reality doesn't half bite at times. The order in which you break away from the scrum/line out will be affecting where you're stood for a good few phases.

Also, if you move a lock back to blindside, the likelihood is their role will change. You don't want three guys playing like locks and presumably you picked the guy at blindside because he's the one you want to modify their game. Admittedly everyone uses their locks and blindsides differently so its hard to be specific but in this case you can work it out by looking at all the things Robshaw does and saying "Someone will now be doing them". Robshaw's job usually seems to be to arrive at the fringes first and seal them off. Itoje can definitely do that, but its a different kettle of fish to being where the fringes start to become midfield (which is usually where Haskell and the locks are).

Shouldn't make a huge difference but it isn't nothing.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I take it you've not done much scrummaging, j'nuh?

Moving across the backrow doesn't make too much difference (aside from positioning, as Peat says) but moving between second row and back row makes a big difference.

Scrummaging is really, really tiring.

 

[Peat]

And no matter how hard you push as a flanker, you never ever have the same pressure coming through your body.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Exactly, it's actually really hard to do much more than put your weight in - there's not a great deal of pushing you can do, because you just slide off the guys ass.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Yeah it's the tiredness I'd say is the main thing