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England callups for Scotland...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Mar 9 2010, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
(Armitages form has dropped incredibly since last year, and Cueto was more solid as a FB in the AIs than Armitage has been in a while)[/b]

Is it "Armitages form has dropped", or perhaps a sign that England were THAT bad last year, he actually looked better then the rest of the inept performances?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Mar 9 2010, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Mar 9 2010, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(Armitages form has dropped incredibly since last year, and Cueto was more solid as a FB in the AIs than Armitage has been in a while)[/b]

Is it "Armitages form has dropped", or perhaps a sign that England were THAT bad last year, he actually looked better then the rest of the inept performances?
[/b][/quote]

Very possible actually, hadn't thought of that! I was mainly thinking about his performance vs France, and a few choice games for London irish though. Thinking of that game vs France, hope Flutey can get back into the swing of things this weekend..
 
I think he did play well last 6N, him and Flutey were our two best players. Though they might have just been standing out alongside poorer players, like Haskell in the AIs: played averagely, but looked better because of everyone elses ineptitude
 
England team

Deacon in for Shaw, Worsely brought in for Moody. Lawes on the bench, and Ben Youngs instead of Hodgson.

You know what this means? That Martin Johnson, while still being very stupid, has not made all of the stupid calls I would have predicted. Courtney Lawes - yes him, that guy everyone says will be world class one day - is actually named in the 22. What's more, Ben Youngs is there too.

So, while Wilkinson is still retained, Worsley plays out of position, Deacon and Payne playing at a level they're not good enough for and Foden not being given the start he's earned... we still have a couple of positives.

I suppose we should also be thankful Tait's not been kicked out for Tindall either.
 
Plenty of time for him to screw it up even more. there just does not seem to be any intention of bringing in young talent. I would have to agree that next years World Cup is a going to be crap. We should be looking at 2015, but we must win at all costs, what are the odds on a Celtic victory on Saturday? It should be worth a fiver. No long term vision, no balls to pick players with attacking intent. this man has to go unfortunately he will not and England will be the worse for it. We went backwards 2 years ago when we picked him as our national manager!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Lads just 1 query .... Do England think maybe sacking Ashton was a poor decision.

Like if he was surrounded with excellent coaches like Ireland did (Kidney with Gaffney, Smal & Kiss) it could've been a progression instead of a rotating door at English managerial post.
And is Rob Andrew safe always or what the story like I'm sure he has input into decisions so should come under microscope too.
 
yes I do think sacking Ashton was a bad move. He is the man responsible for all the talented young players in the england development squads you see at the moment. He is known as the Arsene Wenger of the rugby world. An extremely talented coach who worked miracles in a short time. The biggest problem he had was that he inherited an incompetent set of coaches. He was never allowed to pick his own staff, doubtless Wells at the very least would have lost his job, they simply didnt get on, wells is known to have done his own thing with the forwards rather than listen to Ashton. Given the right set of coaches Ashton could have set the world alight, the side would definetely have been better than the current one. Going on his brief history we could have expected to see some interesting and innovative choices. As for Andrew if Johnson goes Andrew wont be far behind, he got rid of Ashton in a very unsavoury way, he backed the appointment of Johnson. Andrew is incharge of English rugby development therefore the buck stops with him. I felt he was a bad appointment along with Johnson. Lets not forget that the English job is the biggest in the World. if you were not going to get rid of Ashton there were a number of excellent coaches available at the time, one set is now coaching Wales. Jake Whyte and Eddie Jones were avialable, Robbie Deans, Shaun Edwards & Rob Howley were avialable. It was a strange decision to A sack Ashton and B appoint Johnson. My ten penny worth lots of people will disagree no doubt but the fact remains Andrew and Johnson with his team are not the right men for the job.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Mar 9 2010, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Lads just 1 query .... Do England think maybe sacking Ashton was a poor decision.

Like if he was surrounded with excellent coaches like Ireland did (Kidney with Gaffney, Smal & Kiss) it could've been a progression instead of a rotating door at English managerial post.
And is Rob Andrew safe always or what the story like I'm sure he has input into decisions so should come under microscope too.[/b]

England were right to sack Ashton; wrong not to do it straight after the RWC rather than wasting time with the 6N; and wrong to cut him out of the set up altogether. He was a fine attack coach, just not a good head coach.

One of our problems has been that we've not had a proper head coach since Sir Clive - one who can pick teams properly and has enough vision and management skill to manage a team.

Robinson was an excellent forward's coach, but that did not mean he picked good teams, and nor did he play the right gameplan. We're seeing this with Scotland - he's capable of getting a team to really max out its potential, but never consistently, and he himself sometimes makes fatal management errors.

Ideally, we should have kept Robinson and Ashton on as coaches in their own specific fields, because that's what they're good at. But you need a manager to do the other parts.

He needs some more experience, but Richard Cockerill's done an absolutely cracking job since taking over at Leicester. He also comes across as a guy with a lot of integrity. If he keeps up the good work at Leicester, I'd love to see him take over as head coach after 2011, with a nice 4 year 'untouchable' period and the ability to select his own coaching staff.

Of course, this will never happen because we're dealing with the RFU.
 
I'll agree with ginger partially that perhaps ashton would have been better as the attack coach rather than the head coach, but he still would have made a better coach than Johnson, we might be playing some entertaining rugby, i will also agree that at the very least he should have been kept in the setup somewhere. But could we please stop doing what english football did for years and pick mediocre coaches all be it Cockerill is having success, from our league. You want a world class team pick a world class coach with a proven track record. Before anyone says anything about Woodward, he was an exception rather than the rule. Go global, I hate to say it as I really dont like the fact that we have to take a leaf out of Footballs book, but they ****** around for years with british coaches and it didnt work. They got a guy who is a world class coach oh shucks its a bad move unfortuantely they started to play good football and win games. Time for a serious look around the world and see who the best is and get him and his team in and we might start to go somewhere. We have stop ******* around with has beens and never will be's both players and coaches. Otherwise we are endanger of following football in other ways and wasting a generation of talent.
 
Cockerill and Mallender are bout up there with the worlds best managers. Booth could be also if he wasn't such a bleating, control-frealk with an even more irritating personality then Brendan Ventor.
 
How can you say that Mallinder and Cockerill are up there with the worlds best, they have not won anything of note yet. We did this in football picked half decent club managers for the top job and look where it got us we nearly waste one of the most talented generations we have had. I for one dont want to wait another 50 years for a repeat of 2003. The next person who gets the job has got to have proven themselves on the World Stage nothing less will do. He then needs to be given time, resources and backing.


Sorry about this I am not usually a rude person but:
DUDE f@?K *ff
 
Cockerill: Guinness Premiership winner and HEC finalist in his first full season with an Understrength Tigers.
Mallender: European Challenge Cup x 2 (Sale and Northampton), Undefeated season, HEC 1/4 finalist (to be Semi-finalist very soon), EDF Trophy, ND1 Championship. CHURCHILL CUP.


Tell me to f*** off again and you won't last long.
 
Bullit it wasnt you actually I was telling to F@&K *ff, it was Charles.
Still not enough no European Cup not the challenge cup between them.
Current Australian coach Robbie Deans 5 Super 12 or Super 14 ***les with Mitchell won tri nations 2002 2003
Current New Zealand Coach Graham Henry 2 Super 12 ***les 4 NPC's in a row
Get my point they are both capable managers but they are not ready for this yet.
 
Don't go telling him to f*** off either. He's been around long enough to shown he knows what he's talking about more times then you've posted here.

Play nicely or you will get hounded off the board. I've seen your attitude on the other thread.
 
I dont have an attitude. I started a thread about the state of English rugby and it became a wilko then me bashing excersise. At present I dont think Wilko is the player he was but at least he did it. All I asked for after my rant which I personally ended, was name your own England team and I end up with that crap. I have been trying to play nice only to be the subject of some sh*t last time i looked I was only trying to get that thread back to where it was in the beginning.
Do you not agree then that compared to Henry and Deans or Whyte, Cockerill and Mallender seem a little under qualified for an international job? Is that not a reasonable position.
However Mallender if he can add a couple of guiness premierships and a few European cups would be a good choice. He needs to do that doesnt he.
 
Am I the only one that thinks it's odd you can manage the country if you're not from there?
I mean, you have to be from there/have a passport to play, but not to manage/coach,
Seems odd to me
 
Oly
I suppose it depends on the depth of coaching talent in the country your talking about. At the moment England has a number of good young coaches, not necessarily in age but in experience. Bullit named two who are potential England coaches in due course. If you look around the world a number of countries now have coaches which are not nationals:
Australia Robbie Dean New Zealander
Scotland Andy Robinson English
Wales Gatland New Zealander before him Henry again New Zealander also Edwards English
I think one of the current England coaches is an Aussie but I stand by ready to be corrected. I dont think it matters, it would be a bit like an English multi national saying you have to be english to be our CEO. You need to pick the best regardless of nationality, the cricketers did it and now football has for the 2nd time.
It would be nice to have a home grown coach in charge but untill there ready you have to get the best you can.
Under Woodward; Mitchell was the forwards coach for a few years, it isnt as unusual for us as we may think.
I think we will see a time when England play under a foriegn manager, I suspect that most countries will, some will be succesfull other wont be.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Mar 10 2010, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Cockerill: Guinness Premiership winner and HEC finalist in his first full season with an Understrength Tigers.
Mallender: European Challenge Cup x 2 (Sale and Northampton), Undefeated season, HEC 1/4 finalist (to be Semi-[b]finalist very soon),[/b] EDF Trophy, ND1 Championship. CHURCHILL CUP.


Tell me to f*** off again and you won't last long.[/b]
:lol: :lol: :lol: Behave.

Bullitt has a point as in Declan Kidney in Ireland has always been seen as a top coach but before 2006(Munster's first H'Cup win) he didn't have any major cup at senior level rugby.
Northampton is fairness can't boast about season undefeated in National D1. But Malinder is a good coach and well these guys are doing their apprentices at club level in the hope that they 1 day will get national job.

As or comments be people saying follow suit of soccer <_< Shame on You :angry:
 
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