England 6 Nation squad 2024

[BrokenWing]

What is so difficult about 12?

I don't think there is anything is there?

Years ago, there were just centres, maybe left and right centres.

If you look at all the inside centres around, there isn't a cookie cutter type.

The only thing is familiarity with the position, being used to where the other players are around you.

 

[Jimbo]

I don't think there is anything is there?

Years ago, there were just centres, maybe left and right centres.

If you look at all the inside centres around, there isn't a cookie cutter type.

The only thing is familiarity with the position, being used to where the other players are around you.

The best 12s are generally the defensive linchpin, that's kind of the only thing specific about it as far as I can tell.

 

[Which Tyler]

Always thought that was the 13s job

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Always thought that was the 13s job

Spoken like a 12 who just missed a tackle

 

[BrokenWing]

As a teenager who played on the wing with a backline of middle aged men, it was always my fault for not covering across.

 

[Which Tyler]

I played scrum half - any tackle I DO make, is someone else's fault

 

[Grizwald]

Thought Max Ojomoh looked good for the A side. He'll be 24 this year so not quite as green as some of the others. He's not small but more a running footballing 12

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pearson and Ojomoh out
Mitchell and M. Smith in

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Pearson and Ojomoh out
Mitchell and M. Smith in

Feyi-Waboso also back in, so there's got to be another player kicked out right? He was replaced my Muir who is still in there. Just can't figure out who else is absent.

Edit: Randall the other one out.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Steve Borthwick risking player revolt with frustration ‘growing’ inside England camp – report

According to a report, England players believe that too much time is being given to their new defensive system in this year's Six Nations.

www.planetrugby.com

If true that one of the supposedly prominent backs touched the ball ONCE in training, that's ******* ridiculous.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Feyi-Waboso also back in, so there's got to be another player kicked out right? He was replaced my Muir who is still in there. Just can't figure out who else is absent.

Edit: Randall the other one out.

Good spot

 

[Reiser99]

Steve Borthwick risking player revolt with frustration ‘growing’ inside England camp – report

According to a report, England players believe that too much time is being given to their new defensive system in this year's Six Nations.

www.planetrugby.com

If true that one of the supposedly prominent backs touched the ball ONCE in training, that's ******* ridiculous.

Tbh the evidence from the games supports it. Revolt feels a bit click baity though.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Steve Borthwick risking player revolt with frustration ‘growing’ inside England camp – report

According to a report, England players believe that too much time is being given to their new defensive system in this year's Six Nations.

www.planetrugby.com

If true that one of the supposedly prominent backs touched the ball ONCE in training, that's ******* ridiculous.

Wouldn't surprise me, everything I hear about SB so far screams of a coach out his depth with no idea how to actually create a team.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Steve Borthwick risking player revolt with frustration ‘growing’ inside England camp – report

According to a report, England players believe that too much time is being given to their new defensive system in this year's Six Nations.

www.planetrugby.com

If true that one of the supposedly prominent backs touched the ball ONCE in training, that's ******* ridiculous.

I mean or you could listen to Ben Youngs and don Cole's podcast and hear the context upon which this story was ripped off

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

May now weighing in with a dig about England coaches tendency to chop and change after bad results leading to uncertainty, anxiety and fear.

Slade's played with 13 different centre partners for Eng. Since the start of last year we've started 4 scrum halves, 3 fly halves, 5 inside centres and 5 outside centres. Even allowing for injuries, France and RWC warm ups that pretty much tells its own story.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That one feels a bit unfounded tbh - statistically correct, but doesn't really show the whole picture

Other than 10 I think we know who SB's first choice backline is for this 6N

9. Mitchell
10. Ford/Smith (I'm guessing Smith would've been first choice, but not 100% on that)
11. Daly
12. Lawrence
13. Slade
14. Freeman
15. Steward

Other than giving Furbank a shot the only changes are due to injury

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That one feels a bit unfounded tbh - statistically correct, but doesn't really show the whole picture

Other than 10 I think we know who SB's first choice backline is for this 6N

9. Mitchell
10. Ford/Smith (I'm guessing Smith would've been first choice, but not 100% on that)
11. Daly
12. Lawrence
13. Slade
14. Freeman
15. Steward

Other than giving Furbank a shot the only changes are due to injury

I think May was talking about an extended period. But even so.

In that backline though Lawrence came straight in after injury, Mitchell probably will and Smith might. That's not great either - no-one can hit their straps immediately.

Interesting one will be Furbank - if he doesn't play v Ire, then what was the point of Scotland?

Sinfield was bigging up Manu a few days ago…..

 

[Which Tyler]

Since the start of last year we've started 4 scrum halves, 3 fly halves, 5 inside centres and 5 outside centres. Even allowing for injuries, France and RWC warm ups that pretty much tells its own story.

What story does it tell? That all teams rotate for RWC warm-ups and RWC matches against lesser opponents?
That all teams reset a little after a RWC?
That Youngs and Farrell have retired?
That MSmith, Mitchell, Quirke, JvP and various centres have all been injured during international windows?
That some of those are the same player? (can't be bothered to check, but wouldn't be at all surprised if Farrell, Lawrence and Slade have all started in multiple of those positions)

What's the alternative? If your first choice FH has retired, and your 2nd choice FH is injured - that you should force one of them to start anyway because otherwise the stat.s make it look like you're chopping and changing all the time?
Surely, the "even allowing for" tells the entirety of the story.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What story does it tell?

Surely, the "even allowing for" tells the entirety of the story.

Some very fair points, but it's just a continuation of a theme of a lack of consistency.

At random, I chose to look at the teams v Scotland in 21, 22 & 23 so pre RWC cut off. I reckon something like 42 separate players were involved in those 3 squads. Only Genge and Itoje started all 3 matches. only 3 further players were involved in all 3 squads

5, 8, 11, 12, 13 had different players every match. Every single unit was different in every single game. You're just not going to get any continuity at all that way.

For the record, starting with 23 and going backwards:

1. Genge x 3
2. George, LCD, George
3. Sinckler x 2, Stuart
4. Itoje x 3
5. Chessum, Isiekwe, Hill
6. Ludlam x 2, Wilson
7. B Curry, T Curry x 2
8. Dombrandt, Simmons, Binny,
9. JVP, Youngs x 2
10. M Smith x 2, Faz
11. OHC, Marchant, May
12. Faz, Slade, Lawrence
13. Marchant, Daly, Slade
14. Malins x 2, Watson
15. Steward x 2, Daly

When thinking of the attacking game, Daly, Faz, Slade and Marchant all started 2 of the games, each time with a different number of their back.

On the bench: apart from 2 appearances from Earl at 20 and Ford at 22, every shirt had a different player every time. Mako, Marler, Obano at 17, LH, Walker, George, LCD at 16 etc.

In this year's match we had something like 5 starters and 6 subs who hadn't been involved at all in any of the previous 3 matches.

We didn't win any of these 4 matches.

Crossing over coaching eras obviously, but I think this is part of what May's talking about.

 

[IT157]