England 2024/25

[Booboobang]

I think that build's pretty much spot on TBH. Bit of height for the high ball, weight should mean he's solid enough in contact and be able to bust tackles once he gets going. But not so heavy as to reduce his pace, or probably more importantly, agility. I'm all for our backs being powerful but for those out wide that should be a secondary trick.

Just one thought. Lot more to any position than sheer physical attributes, but are we missing the threat of some sheer gas? Mitchell and M Smith are probably around the fastest in their positions, but not sure that applies to the outside backs. Definitely not the midfield, and while Sleightholme, IFW, Freeman and Furbank are all quick, none seem to be total sprinters like peak Watson and May who at their peak you'd have backed against anyone. Isn't Earl supposed to be about the fastest over 20m?

Sleightholme is pure gase man, freeman sure, IFW looks quick, furbank is meh but who else is quicker at FB?

 

[Which Tyler]

who else is quicker at FB?

Bath have a couple. De Granville is probably a little shy of international class, but may yet develop further now that Gallagher is out of his way, but I'd back Harris to overtake him if he can put his injuries behind him.
In terms of pace, both are rapid, not Watson quick, but still rapid.
Both are 2nd playmakers, btw

 

[AlRums]

Quite hilarious really

They even fiddled the stats.

They played 12 matches this year, including the summer in NZ.

In total England won 5, Italy, Wales, Ireland and Japan X2

So taking 5 wins from 10 (12-NZ) that's a 50% win rate.

So let's include NZ that's 5 from 12 that's just shy of a 42% win rate.

If you want to exclude the two losses to NZ (why? It's just a device to make the win rate better than it was) then surely you should exclude the first win against Japan seeing as that took place on the same tour.

 

[AlRums]

Where have you seen this ?

Joe Marler: Ex-England prop announces retirement from rugby

Former England and Harlequins prop Joe Marler announces his retirement from professional rugby aged 34.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Lé Ddanno]

On this, we also only won games by a handful of points, two against teams we should be easily winning in wales and italy. People talk about close losses, but the wins werent impressive either.

This isn't being highlighted enough

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

They even fiddled the stats.

They played 12 matches this year, including the summer in NZ.

In total England won 5, Italy, Wales, Ireland and Japan X2

So taking 5 wins from 10 (12-NZ) that's a 50% win rate.

So let's include NZ that's 5 from 12 that's just shy of a 42% win rate.

If you want to exclude the two losses to NZ (why? It's just a device to make the win rate better than it was) then surely you should exclude the first win against Japan seeing as that took place on the same tour.

Don't think they have.

It's a formal annual report, but it can't be for the calendar year as that's not yet finished. Looks like the financial year runs from 1/7 to 30/6 so presumably the whole report is written for the year to 30.6.24.

Last year from Jul to Dec we played 11 winning 7. This year to end Jun we played 6 winning 4. Add them together for an aggregate of 11 out of 17 - 65%.

The NZ fixtures would have been played by the time the report was written but, played in July, were outside the reporting period so not included in the numbers.

 

[Reiser99]

Don't think they have.

It's a formal annual report, but it can't be for the calendar year as that's not yet finished. Looks like the financial year runs from 1/7 to 30/6 so presumably the whole report is written for the year to 30.6.24.

Last year from Jul to Dec we played 11 winning 7. This year to end Jun we played 6 winning 4. Add them together for an aggregate of 11 out of 17 - 65%.

The NZ fixtures would have been played by the time the report was written but, played in July, were outside the reporting period so not included in the numbers.

Well in that case, England are off to a **** start this year. 2/8 won, so 25%, both of which were against Japan. For me if we keep playing like we are then it's likely to be 2/5 in the 6Ns, which would be 4/13 and 31% win ratio. Even if we won the GS we would only hit 54% win ratio.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well in that case, England are off to a **** start this year. 2/8 won, so 25%, both of which were against Japan. For me if we keep playing like we are then it's likely to be 2/5 in the 6Ns, which would be 4/13 and 31% win ratio. Even if we won the GS we would only hit 54% win ratio.

I think it's 1 from 6 (16%) since Jul - NZ tour x 2 plus the 4 AIs, so even worse. This calendar year we've been 5 from 12 - 42% which is the kind of ratio Jones was at when he got sacked. Another year at those levels would make SB's job untenable.

As you say, a v unlikely GS would only take it to 54% for the reporting year (6 from 11) , but would probably save SB by sheer virtue of being a GS.

Looks like we might be going to Arg in the summer for 2 tests but presumably with a weakened team due to Lions which may or may not get included in the stats depending on timing and results….but could still only take it to 8/13 - 61% max. So however it goes the % in the next year's report will have dropped. At the end of next year we'll be half way through the RWC cycle, so the 6N does have a bit of a make or break feel, esp with 3 at home and the 2 away fixtures being against teams we beat last time round.

 

[BPM]

This isn't being highlighted enough

Probably not. Although IIRC, they were the first two games in the 6N and we played ourselves in to better form.

That doesn't make it any better, but from a contextual PoV, Italy are not the pushovers they were (even less so in Rome) and Wales hadn't quite reached their nadir. Always worth factoring in how much the Welsh raise their game against us too.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Add to that the backlash against Sweeny. The whole RFU needs a good clean out and some serious professionals being brought in, not more old boys in blazers.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Add to that the backlash against Sweeny. The whole RFU needs a good clean out and some serious professionals being brought in, not more old boys in blazers.

There's a petition on change.org, started yesterday, to get rid of Sweeney, but signatures are only in the hundreds.

I'm not sure he is a blazer. Successful business career with big corporates including sportswear firms followed by 6 pretty successful years as CEO of the British Olympic Association. Those are about as good creds as you'll find. Things aren't working now which is the important bit, but he wasn't a jobs for the boys insider appointment.

 

[Geordie]

Sweeney needs to go...simple as that

 

[Which Tyler]

Worth noting, that they are all "serious professionals" rather than "old boys in blazers"
Most of the criticisms that aren't lazy repeats of the cliché are that they're not really "rugby people" - AKA, that they're NOT "old boys in blazers"

Is there anyone on the RFU board who actually fits that tired old cliché?

 

[BPM]

Yep. Once upon a time that may well have been the case, but these days it's just factually inaccurate.

That doesn't mean they're not inept and grossly overpaid for doing a bad job, but we're not talking about old men in blazers any more.

If Sweeney had integrity, he'd refuse the bonus and use that money for any one of a myriad of things that could do with the RFU's investment.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Worth noting, that they are all "serious professionals" rather than "old boys in blazers"
Most of the criticisms that aren't lazy repeats of the cliché are that they're not really "rugby people" - AKA, that they're NOT "old boys in blazers"

Is there anyone on the RFU board who actually fits that tired old cliché?

Mainly. Although why there need to be Army and Navy representatives on a 10 person board beats me.

You don't need to be an out and out rugby expert to be effective on the Board but Jonathan Webb is the only one with any top flight rugby pedigree and he's into his 60s now.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Supposedly the RFU have agreed terms with Saracens to steal away that S&C guy that the clubs blocked from working for both England and Sarries at the same time, and he'll take up the role by the 6N

 

[Reiser99]

I agree about highlighting our narrow wins. My issue with the Autumn was the performances themselves. In the summer, I felt like although we lost, the performances were good and something to build on. This time NZ and S.A didn't play particularly well and given the state of Australian rugby, it was a game we should gave won if we were progressing. Overall are performances were very average and defence was very bad. Yes it's a results based business, but we don't look like a team that will be beating the top 4 if we just get on the right side of some results. We look like an average team who might pull off a win against the top 4 on a good day and will be stuck competing for 5-8 in the world rankings.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If Sweeney had integrity, he'd refuse the bonus and use that money for any one of a myriad of things that could do with the RFU's investment.

Disagree.

If there's fault here it's with the Board. He's a CEO, the Board set him objectives and agreed an incentive package with him for achieving them. He was paid for what he did achieve and if he'd achieved other metrics he'd have received more. We're just outsiders looking in with only a fraction of the relevant information - maybe he actually did outstandingly well to achieve those particular objectives. Maybe he didn't, only those in the know have any real idea. But ultimately the Board signed off on the deal.

Whether we like it or not, rugby is now a business. Soul has long since been sold and the management actions must be judged by the standards of the business world.

We judge much on what we see on the field from the senior men's team, but there's much more to running the RFU than that. That said, the success of that team is critical to the health of the wider game and significant criticism can be levelled at management for the failings of leadership around that team since 2019.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Supposedly the RFU have agreed terms with Saracens to steal away that S&C guy that the clubs blocked from working for both England and Sarries at the same time, and he'll take up the role by the 6N

Interesting. They've just lost their CEO too after less than a year.

Maybe McCall will get unsettled and start looking for opportunities in the international arena.

 

[Geordie]

Interesting. They've just lost their CEO too after less than a year.

Maybe McCall will get unsettled and start looking for opportunities in the international arena.

Id take him in a heartbeat....but would he want to manage England...thats a different thing entirely.