England 2024/25

[Grizwald]

Just reading Wikipedia for sizes of players.
The NZ bench front row quoted as 20 st 17st and 23st.
Ours were 19st, 16.5 St, 20st.
Giving away a lot of mass across there average of 1 St per player.

I was sat in the 4th row at Twickenham on Saturday. A scrum was set fairly close to us and I remarked to my mate "jesus the kiwi props are bloody big units."

On other stuff really disappointing that Ted Hill has left the squad. Ewels has been in good form for Bath but his disciplinary record for England aside I'd put him firmly in the decent premiership standard at best category.

AOF is an interesting one. Genge and Stuart held up the scrum far better than I expected at the weekend. England aren't going to have a scrum that is going to be able to take a part the best in world for some time so in my eyes it's damage limitation and playing more attacking minded rugby. I can't quote the exact numbers but the number of passes and offloads made at the weekend was pathetic.

I put the loss on Saturday down to poor coaching both with tactics and selection. Watch a bit of the post match press conference and Borthwick managed to come across as arrogant and treating England fans as a bit stupid with his usual rhetoric.

 

[Rinkadink]

Ewels has been in good form for Bath

I'm not sure Borthwick knows that Joe Batley exists for some reason.

 

[Geordie]

I can see Tom Curry being 17.5

He's 6'1 and a muscular build. Don't think it's far off

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

More stuff coming out of the serialisation of Care's book. Presumably lawyers have been all over it pre publication, but quite extraordinary.

Plus a piece in the Times overtly calling for Sweeney and his team to go for allowing that culture.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

More stuff coming out of the serialisation of Care's book. Presumably lawyers have been all over it pre publication, but quite extraordinary.

Got a link?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I kinda lack some respect for people who wait till they have a book to start flinging this stuff.
Like let's be real would Care have cared if he was in Eddie and Lancasters good books.

He saw the culture and was so disgusted with it he decided to say nothing cause he wants to be involved in the culture still??

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Bullying is bullying. Sweeny needs to go for allowing it. I don't care if people have waited for a book as it's fair for them to make money in a limited career.

I've heard other stories as well about Eddie being a bully, no smoke without fire…. (What about smoke machines? Dry ice).

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Got a link?

Hopefully these work.

https://archive.ph/D7wFR

https://archive.ph/ypPl4

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I kinda lack some respect for people who wait till they have a book to start flinging this stuff.
Like let's be real would Care have cared if he was in Eddie and Lancasters good books.

He saw the culture and was so disgusted with it he decided to say nothing cause he wants to be involved in the culture still??

Tbf on that last paragraph he does talk about that in the extract i read. Talks about post Japan game trying to stand up to him and just totally crumbling and feeling disgusted with himself

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I kinda lack some respect for people who wait till they have a book to start flinging this stuff.
Like let's be real would Care have cared if he was in Eddie and Lancasters good books.

He saw the culture and was so disgusted with it he decided to say nothing cause he wants to be involved in the culture still??

That's the whole point. Sounds like players, even experienced ones, were afraid to speak up because of the likely repercussions and loss of match fees etc.

Will be interesting to see how / if Jones responds. With Japan coming over he's going to get asked…..

 

[Saintjay]

Some England players also think Jones was the best coach they ever worked with. More those in the "untouchable' group. Dylan Hartley has spoken loads of the hell he went through for Jones.

It's easy to be critical of people not speaking out. But when your looking at 20k, experinces you'll never get just playing club rugby, sponsorships and your one shot at being at the very pinnacle of a short career. I get why they didn't.

Regardless treating traing staff badly is always a dick move.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

That's the whole point. Sounds like players, even experienced ones, were afraid to speak up because of the likely repercussions and loss of match fees etc.

Will be interesting to see how / if Jones responds. With Japan coming over he's going to get asked…..

But like **** always get leaked to the press so why not leak everything? It's pretty clear certain senior players has leaked info before I feel espcially with selections.

Personally I don't see it as being afraid more just watching their own back first.
Like with the culture being as toxic as it was why not come out and just say it? Like why did he wait for his book to them drop it? Like the culture is that toxic then why not try and force a change?

I get why and it's not going to be the last we hear of it, but it's hard to feel sympathy for someone saying they felt disgusted with themselves for not speaking up at the time when they are really only speaking up to sell books right now.

On Jones he can try and defend himself but the evidence is pretty clear and damning but this is all just closing the door after the horse bolted and if more players had actually come together at the time and brought in the press **** would've been changed

 

[Reiser99]

But like **** always get leaked to the press so why not leak everything? It's pretty clear certain senior players has leaked info before I feel espcially with selections.

Personally I don't see it as being afraid more just watching their own back first.
Like with the culture being as toxic as it was why not come out and just say it? Like why did he wait for his book to them drop it? Like the culture is that toxic then why not try and force a change?

I get why and it's not going to be the last we hear of it, but it's hard to feel sympathy for someone saying they felt disgusted with themselves for not speaking up at the time when they are really only speaking up to sell books right now.

On Jones he can try and defend himself but the evidence is pretty clear and damning but this is all just closing the door after the horse bolted and if more players had actually come together at the time and brought in the press **** would've been changed

You've got to remember there is a power imbalance when part of the setup. Yes, he could have openly called all of this out at the time, but he would never play for England again. Could he and should he have done more. Probably, but I don't blame him. My only criticism is publishing is it in a book to make money.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

On Jones he can try and defend himself but the evidence is pretty clear and damning but this is all just closing the door after the horse bolted and if more players had actually come together at the time and brought in the press **** would've been changed

That I do agree with but maybe there was divide and rule going on and maybe the captain was seen as too much of the coach's man rather than the players bridge to them.

Say what you like about SCW but he listened when his senior players kicked off.

And perhaps it's also symptomatic of the lack of of leadership in the squad that's been apparent for ages. Jones was right to moan about that.

 

[Reiser99]

That I do agree with but maybe there was divide and rule going on and maybe the captain was seen as too much of the coach's man rather than the players bridge to them.

Say what you like about SCW but he listened when his senior players kicked off.

And perhaps it's also symptomatic of the lack of of leadership in the squad that's been apparent for ages. Jones was right to moan about that.

On the last point maybe if Jones had pushed them to find the leaders who stood up to him and then promoted them, fine. But anyone who did stand up to him was discarded. He was all BS.

 

[TommiG88]

On the last point maybe if Jones had pushed them to find the leaders who stood up to him and then promoted them, fine. But anyone who did stand up to him was discarded. He was all BS.

His idea of a leader is to as he said and set an example. Which from memory of reading Hartley's book was exactly what he did. Is that leadership though or just being a puppet?

 

[IT157]

Some England players also think Jones was the best coach they ever worked with. More those in the "untouchable' group. Dylan Hartley has spoken loads of the hell he went through for Jones.

It's easy to be critical of people not speaking out. But when your looking at 20k, experinces you'll never get just playing club rugby, sponsorships and your one shot at being at the very pinnacle of a short career. I get why they didn't.

Regardless treating traing staff badly is always a dick move.

Even Care says that:

"I stand by the fact - and I say it in the book - that Eddie is still the best coach that I have ever worked with,"

Samu Kerevi defends Eddie Jones after Danny Care 'toxic' comments

Australia centre Samu Kerevi says controversy over ex-England coach Eddie Jones' man-management methods may be down to cultural differences.

www.bbc.com

Just that his methods are aggressive and perhaps only work in the short term.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Jonny Hill: Sale & England forward given 10-week ban for fan incident at Bath - BBC Sport

Sale and England forward Jonny Hill is given a 10-week suspension for an incident involving a fan after their Premiership semi-final loss to Bath.

www.bbc.co.uk

I remember this but not really. Wasn't the fan he assaulted being racist or something?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Nah,
There's some discussion in the game thread about it but the long and short is:
From what people in the crowd have said the guy was drunk and shouting stuff at some Sale fans sat nearish him (which was actually the section where the friends/family of the players sat). Hill went over to tell him to STFU and it ended up with Hill grabbing him round the throat
The way the guy in the crowd tells it Hill came over for no reason and got him in a headlock

Hopefully the RFU release the full report of the hearing because they knocked 10 weeks off his ban for mitigating circumstances, so sounds more like the former rather than the latter

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

England team is up but we don't even have a match day thread yet!!!

Borthwick releasing the team early again!