England 2024/25

[Vieux Talonneur]

We've now dropped to 7th in the rankings.

This year we've won 4 from 10. Assuming we lose to the Boks and beat Jap that would be 5 from 12 or a 41% hit rate. Even winning both would only give us 50%.

And of the victories….

This iteration of Jap is nothing like the 19 team.

The worst Welsh team in living memory was only beaten by 2 points at home

We only beat Italy by 3, the closest they've ever got to us.

Ire was an excellent effort, but only won very late against a team which looks to have past its peak.

Since the end of the 23 6N no-one's really walloped us on the scoreboard, but losing's not a great habit.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

It would be nice to have one or two world class players in any position at the moment.

Itoje and Smith are up there, IFW was looking about there, but the drop off after that in certain positions, and balance in units, particularly the back row and midfield is just bleeeh.

We have to fix the bench, it might as well not be there bar perhaps Sleightholme but he was shown up a bit. It's easily the weakest in T1 Rugby

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

It's easily the weakest in T1 Rugby

Idk about that, Scotland, Wales, Italy all exist, but the rest of it is spot on

 

[BrokenWing]

Was listening to Eggchasers this morning and thought JB made a good suggestion.
Instead of giving the players 20k per game, give them 5 with 15k win bonus. If they don't win, they don't get the bonus but it goes into a "coach replacement fund" and when it reaches a certain value, you get rid of the coach.

 

[higgik]

I think Smith is at the moment one of England's best players and also Borthwick's biggest problem.

Borthwick is very rigid in that if we do X,Y, then this should happen. Smith doesn't necessarily suit that.

Having watched the game back. Ruck defence and securing the ball in contact was terrible. As others have pointed out we look unable to carry in heavy traffic and relatively light weight.

When put under pressure the scrum, line out, attack and defence it is all struggling. We seem to have two styles and revert to different ones depending on if we are leading or chasing a lead.

How much of this is coaching or players i don't know. We just seem to play by stats and data and not what's going on during the match.

Watch Quins, and Smith has complete control.
Everyone plays to him.
Very simple set up, gave strike runners off him and the runners of them.
But like American Football, with the Option play.
Smith gets the ball and looks at what is in front of him.
If it is not great he gives it to a power runner, (e.g. Andre or Dombrandt) who can hit hard but still get offloads away.
Marchant, Beard, etc would be running off them ready for offload or to clear out, bring dar enough back to make decisions.
If the space or mismatch is there,he goes for it, and the trigger is accepted by others around him following, again to pick up offload or clear out.

 

[Which Tyler]

Re: England A

Ewan Richards: Bath lock is growing 'everything' about his game

Bath lock Ewan Richards is growing "everything" about his game, says coach Andy Robinson after their second Premiership Rugby Cup win.

www.bbc.co.uk

Billy Sela out for 2 months with an arm/shouler injury

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

O'Shea calling the talent in the age group spanning Smith / Earl down to Pollock / Fasogbon "generational".

Hmmmm. Premature at best, silly at worst. Maybe don't start using language like that until something's been actually achieved and some of those have worn the senior shirt. Unless it's a deliberate ploy to put pressure on SB……

 

[Which Tyler]

In rugby terms, a "generation" would be about 4-5 years.
So describing an entire generation as "generational" would seem rather obvious. But I suspect it's more just to build some hype and pat himself on the back

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

In rugby terms, a "generation" would be about 4-5 years.
So describing an entire generation as "generational" would seem rather obvious. But I suspect it's more just to build some hype and pat himself on the back

Hadn't thought of it in that literal way!

I take it more to mean "once in a blue moon". But either way it doesn't generally mean a bit of potential that's achieved nothing yet!

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Was listening to Eggchasers this morning and thought JB made a good suggestion.
Instead of giving the players 20k per game, give them 5 with 15k win bonus. If they don't win, they don't get the bonus but it goes into a "coach replacement fund" and when it reaches a certain value, you get rid of the coach.

That would make it harder to keep fringe players involved and not seek France salaries which might cover the difference.

And also make squad fall outs worse if one or two players could be blamed for a defeat.

 

[Which Tyler]

There's also the suggestion that the players aren't actually trying to win the match; but threaten their earnings and they'll try harder - which is even more insulting than it is inaccurate.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Weird not to include Haffar from the start considering there was only 1 loosehead in there
Guess that confirms (as if there were any doubt, considering the squad makeup) that Hill was there as a lock primarily

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

There's also the suggestion that the players aren't actually trying to win the match; but threaten their earnings and they'll try harder - which is even more insulting than it is inaccurate.

You'd like to think so.

Do either the new central contracts or existing match fee arrangements have any success element?

 

[Which Tyler]

From memory, win bonuses are usually in addition to the announced contract - so I'd expect there to be, both for contracted and PAYG players.
Equally, they tend to be more win bonuses for the tourney rather than by the match. I dunno if they even exist for "friendlies"

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Idk about that, Scotland, Wales, Italy all exist, but the rest of it is spot on

I said T1

 

[BrokenWing]

That would make it harder to keep fringe players involved and not seek France salaries which might cover the difference.

And also make squad fall outs worse if one or two players could be blamed for a defeat.

I don't think he was seriously suggesting that…

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

O'Shea calling the talent in the age group spanning Smith / Earl down to Pollock / Fasogbon "generational".

Hmmmm. Premature at best, silly at worst. Maybe don't start using language like that until something's been actually achieved and some of those have worn the senior shirt. Unless it's a deliberate ploy to put pressure on SB……

They say this all the time about everyone

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Frustrating that Dingwall is captain as that means he likely starts at 12 - unless he goes 13 and Ojomoh 12

Surprised at no Asher