England 2024/25

[Abraxaz]

If we are seriously considering Earl at centre. It shows how bad we are at developing players and a massive fault. It's not like it's been a recent issue.

Easier to buy a South African or Pacific Islander in has been the go to for too many years.

We should follow the Irish's idea of banning clubs from outsourcing for key positions

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There's a number of centres in the league we could look at, we just don't
Atkinson hasn't even made the A game despite being in great form and looking very like the kind of player we want

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Easier to buy a South African or Pacific Islander in has been the go to for too many years.

We should follow the Irish's idea of banning clubs from outsourcing for key positions

That would need clubs to not be privately funded and no promotion/relegation to work.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[Reiser99]

Forward pass anyway in the build up.

 

[IT157]

Losing two experienced assistant coaches has not helped by the looks of things

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Both smart moves,
Imagine we'll got to a 6:2 bench again though,

Hope I'm wrong but think Borthwick will go 6. CCS, 7. Earl, 8. Dombrandt

 

[Reiser99]

Both smart moves,
Imagine we'll got to a 6:2 bench again though,

Hope I'm wrong but think Borthwick will go 6. CCS, 7. Earl, 8. Dombrandt

Smart moves if they end up playing, but they won't. It'll be another poor selection.

 

[Geordie]

Both smart moves,
Imagine we'll got to a 6:2 bench again though,

Hope I'm wrong but think Borthwick will go 6. CCS, 7. Earl, 8. Dombrandt

Please give us
6 Hill
7 Earl
8 CCS

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Underhill?

 

[Geordie]

Underhill?

Forgot about him!

Yes..Earls not in form...
6 Hill
7 Underhill
8 CCS

 

[Abraxaz]

Nah he'll play ford at every position bar ten, that'll be genge and it'll still be smits fault

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Forgot about him!

Yes..Earls not in form...
6 Hill
7 Underhill
8 CCS

Earl is total guff this season

 

[Rinkadink]

There's a number of centres in the league we could look at, we just don't

Indeed.

It is unnecessary to have world class or a potential world class hopeful to play in every position. It is by far better to just have someone to do a job, who understands the role instinctively and allows others around them to shine than it is to ram in your darlings into the wrong positions or persist in their inclusion when their form takes a prolonged dip.

Its crazy that even fans are now considering that M. Smith to starting full back and either Ford or F. Smith to 10 should be the future of English rugby. Disregarding many other past examples I think it's quite possible that an natural 15/back 3 player does not make the defensive error that M. Smith did which gave Australia their winning score so why persist with this and similar unless England's hand had been forced? (which it had not) It is not just limited to that example but has been a problem for a long time.

England are still attempting to play like they're SA instead of to their own strengths with plenty of players having the kind of ball and physical skills many previous coaches would have done unspeakable things for. I don't think it's time for Borthwick to go and if he did I doubt a replacement will come easy, but it is time for a fresh approach especially when it comes to attack and identity. I'd tentatively ask if Wigglesworth is really the best England can find to get an attack firing before moving on Borthwick.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Our players are plenty good enough, imo

Well you say that….

SB's not getting the best from what we have, but there's not a single World XV player in there.

Front row, and bench, are moderate. No-one's arguing on that.

Locks can influence games on their day but don't have the consistent influence or stature / fear factor of Johnson back in the day or Etzebeth or Whitelock and Retallick had. Lacking a bit of height and line out dominance. Can see why SB likes Chessum.

Our much vaunted back row….

At 7 we've not even been playing the best flanker in his family. Has been excellent, but horrid injuries and barely played. SB deserves pelters for a reputational pick.

CCS is inexperienced. Right to play him, but he's raw. In 2 or 3 years he could be total world class, probably at 8, but not yet. Ideally he'd have been slotted in to an otherwise settled unit.

Earl is clearly nothing more than an interim option at 8. Good player who had a rich vein of form but I don't think he's what we need at 8 and should be competing for the 7 shirt / bench.

Dombrandt short of the required standard unfortunately. Underhill and T Willis should have been involved and may have shifted the dial a bit while Chessum's injured.

9. Mitchell looks to be the only convincing one. Understand why SB went for him. But he's hurt and there's a pretty big gap to the others.

10 shouldn't really be an issue. But the debate will rage forever whether M Smith's the saviour or a big part of the problem with others not on his wavelength.

Centres. Running sore still not fixed. Apart from anything else look perennially underpowered.

IFW looks to the manor born. Freeman's a good player, but might be having 2nd season syndrome or not being used well. But to me he looks a centre in the making. Lot to like about Sleightholme's aggressive running.

Furbank's gone awol in attack and has made some defensive mistakes. Reading that part of this is because defenders can't now protect him - maybe, but if that's right he needs to sort it out sharpish. More questions raised as Saturday should have been the kind of game where he thrived, but was anonymous.

Bench I think everyone's agreed seldom carries the impact we'd hope.

 

[Saintjay]

I think Smith is at the moment one of England's best players and also Borthwick's biggest problem.

Borthwick is very rigid in that if we do X,Y, then this should happen. Smith doesn't necessarily suit that.

Having watched the game back. Ruck defence and securing the ball in contact was terrible. As others have pointed out we look unable to carry in heavy traffic and relatively light weight.

When put under pressure the scrum, line out, attack and defence it is all struggling. We seem to have two styles and revert to different ones depending on if we are leading or chasing a lead.

How much of this is coaching or players i don't know. We just seem to play by stats and data and not what's going on during the match.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Also irrespective of how good Spencer is, picking him after playing Mitchell is a real change of tactics and how they play.

We seem to have no identity and no real let of tactics/ gameplan.

It's odd that SB has said a few times that the players have gone off plan. Is that him talking shite, is that the players deciding his plan is rubbish, or is there not enough leaders to force direction on the pitch?

Lots of questions but none which I think SB will fix unless he asks a more experienced coach. We could really do with a consultant HC to come in and assist for a bit.

 

[Reiser99]

Also irrespective of how good Spencer is, picking him after playing Mitchell is a real change of tactics and how they play.

We seem to have no identity and no real let of tactics/ gameplan.

It's odd that SB has said a few times that the players have gone off plan. Is that him talking shite, is that the players deciding his plan is rubbish, or is there not enough leaders to force direction on the pitch?

Lots of questions but none which I think SB will fix unless he asks a more experienced coach. We could really do with a consultant HC to come in and assist for a bit.

Yeah the excuses don't really wash. Especially when it's part of a pattern. In the 6Ns we also started strong in games and then seemed to switch off and change tactics. It's like we're scared of being in front.

England have no clear identity, no clear game plan and just seem to be relying on players playing well.

 

[Saintjay]

Indeed.

It is unnecessary to have world class or a potential world class hopeful to play in every position. It is by far better to just have someone to do a job, who understands the role instinctively and allows others around them to shine than it is to ram in your darlings into the wrong positions or persist in their inclusion when their form takes a prolonged dip.

Its crazy that even fans are now considering that M. Smith to starting full back and either Ford or F. Smith to 10 should be the future of English rugby. Disregarding many other past examples I think it's quite possible that an natural 15/back 3 player does not make the defensive error that M. Smith did which gave Australia their winning score so why persist with this and similar unless England's hand had been forced? (which it had not) It is not just limited to that example but has been a problem for a long time.

England are still attempting to play like they're SA instead of to their own strengths with plenty of players having the kind of ball and physical skills many previous coaches would have done unspeakable things for. I don't think it's time for Borthwick to go and if he did I doubt a replacement will come easy, but it is time for a fresh approach especially when it comes to attack and identity. I'd tentatively ask if Wigglesworth is really the best England can find to get an attack firing before moving on Borthwick.

It would be nice to have one or two world class players in any position at the moment.