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England 2023/24

I'm normally a very firm critic of lineout throwing (/forwards fundamentals in general) but Dan's been good whenever I've seen him for Saracens this season
Whether he can bring that to the additional pressure of international we'll have to wait and see
 
It still is the pinnacle, and it's an annoying message the media is pushing

Will Carling is from a time where you didn't have the massive money France and Japan could offer so he can say that the lure of the country was strong because literally no one else was fishing for him lol.


I'll put it this way how many of those who moved would be turning down England international selection if we changed our eligibility selection?


How many Irish players would stay in Ireland if they didn't have tax incentives

playing for England is still the pinnacle otherwise so many more would leave
 
Is Max Ojomoh injured? Hasn't played in the last couple of games.
Just doesn't make the Bath 23 at the moment as a result of their 6:2 split and him being behind Redpath and Lawrence to start.

To be honest when you actually take a step back and look at it it's kinda crazy that we're all championing him to start for England. He's good but he doesn't make his club's 23 (and also hasn't even been playing 12 when he has played). To throw him in at international level now would be setting him up for failure.
 
Is Max Ojomoh injured? Hasn't played in the last couple of games.
Last played New Year's Eve.

He's the principle victim of JvG's love of a 6:2 bench split. Means a SH then one of Ojomoh, Bailey (or Harris, recently) or whichever of DeGlanville/Gallagher doesn't start.
To be honest when you actually take a step back and look at it it's kinda crazy that we're all championing him to start for England. He's good but he doesn't make his club's 23. To throw him in at international level now would be setting him up for failure.
Far from "all".
But he's 3rd choice centre behind 2 international centres, and not really a step down when he plays, whilst still getting a decent amount of gametime (over 700 minutes.
Of course, he's helped by a dearth of alternatives at IC, as discussed regularly.
 
It still is the pinnacle, and it's an annoying message the media is pushing

Will Carling is from a time where you didn't have the massive money France and Japan could offer so he can say that the lure of the country was strong because literally no one else was fishing for him lol.


I'll put it this way how many of those who moved would be turning down England international selection if we changed our eligibility selection?


How many Irish players would stay in Ireland if they didn't have tax incentives

playing for England is still the pinnacle otherwise so many more would leave

You're right that there weren't the other options back in the day. But there are now.

England's probably what everyone still starts out dreaming of it, but as careers progress it's clearly more of a career choice than ever.

Players face less job security with fewer clubs, most of which aren't in a great financial state.

Central contracts are coming and it's odds on that the recipients of those will see the most game time, otherwise what's the point?

Great for those nailed on, but if you're a fringe player or not immediately in contention and someone waves the cheque book at you it's going to be tempting and we're only at the start of this change of landscape

Arundell was bothering but in many ways Willis, Marchant and Ludlam are more concerning as they'd expect to be fairly regularly in 23s and are at peak age. Farrell's in a different bucket but he probably had a shirt for as long as he wanted it and he's also turned his back.

Reality of the pro game is that players are going to monetise their careers in the best way they can. If that's England then great but most aren't going to hang around for years on the off chance if there are better offers to be had.

If we haven't seen a total flood to France yet we can probably thank the French JIFF requirements which limit the number of imports.
 
Mako has retired from international rugby



For a time he brought something a bit extra but he had to to compensate for the tight.

When he was good he was very good but those days are long in the rear view mirror now.

About to turn 33. Wonder if there's a couple of years in France beckoning.
 
Mako has retired from international rugby


Fair play. As above he had some great moments for England and deserves respect for that. Unfortunately as he got older his scrummaging kept getting shown up. I wonder if he's had a conversation with Borthwick and this allows him to retire rather than be dropped.
 
Been a great servant to England Sarries. Scrum was always his weakness, however a modern day great in the loose( when he was at his peak 15-19) Balance of great hands and brutal carrying
 
Fair play. As above he had some great moments for England and deserves respect for that. Unfortunately as he got older his scrummaging kept getting shown up. I wonder if he's had a conversation with Borthwick and this allows him to retire rather than be dropped.
His scrummaging was always bad right from the start of his career. I don't think he should ever have played for England.
 
Does he still hold the record for most tackles by an England player for that effort against Ireland in 2019?

I've been very critical of Mako and his scrummaging ability but there's no denying that in terms of what he could do in the loose he's been one of the best props of the last decade; perhaps the best. Certainly not the lazy player he's sometimes been made out to be.
 
Personally, I think England should have had Marler at 1 and Mako at 17 for a good chunk of their respective caps, but to suggest he wasn't worth a single cap is plain ridiculous.

You also have to consider who he was competing with. Exactly who should have had the caps he accumulated if not him?
 
He was excellent when he burst on to the scene - we all hoped his scrummaging would come good as he matured, but it never really did
Probably should've been dropped at around 30, as his athleticism started to drop and he lost his USP

Really was quality early on though
 

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