England 2023/24

[BPM]

For me it's simply a case of Lawrence being best suited to the 12 role and Dingwall being a serviceable deputy for Slade. Why move two players when you only need to replace one?

Williams and Tompkins are 'test calibre' on the basis that they've played and done OK for Wales. I can't say I feel overly aggrieved to have missed out on either. Williams is mostly injured and hasn't kicked on to the level he probably ought to have and whether Tompkins is an out and out 12 is up for debate. He's played a fair bit at 12 but I think (like Lawrence) he's better at 13 and I'm not sure he's any better than any of the options we already have.

Redpath is the one I feel we missed out on. It also feels the most traitorous as Eddie did show plenty of interest in him. He just wasn't willing to cap him as soon as the Scots were.

 

[BPM]

What I'm talking about is maybe more of a deliberate and concerted effort to train up the type of player we want at 12. It's not uncommon to see players moved from the back row to the front row, but what about if we had a back row player that looked as though they might be better served switching to the backs? We use Earl as a pseudo 12 late in games but what if we'd identified that 8-10 years ago and thought, this guy is quick and skilful but a little on the small side for an elite flanker. Same goes for Simmonds.

I'm probably naive in thinking this doesn't actually happen very often, but the only concrete example I know of is actually Nick Tompkins. I believe he started out as a flanker.

 

[Which Tyler]

I suspect that A] We just don't get to hear about it anywhere near as often as it happens, and B] Academy coaches have tonnes of backs to pick from, but fewer forwards, and even fewer front row forwards; so the movement is more heavily biased that way.
As for training up the type of player we want at 12 (or 15, or 6, or...) is that at the national level, that won't be what's wanted by the time the teenager reaches international contention as both the game, and the coach, will have moved on by then; with a side helping of the age-old contradictions between what the school needs, the amateur club needs, the associated professional club needs at age-grade, the associated professional club sees itself needing in 5 years time (by which time both the game and the coach are likely to have moved on) what the age-grade national coach needs, and what all those different coaches sees as the best for that player personally.
Player preference may also come into things once in a while.

 

[West Country Wail]

A 'debacle' suggests we have the players but don't use them. That isn't the case. The issue has been that we haven't produced test calibre 12s for a long, long time. I don't understand why we don't seem to have recognised that and made it a focus at age grade level?

I disagree about Lawrence going to 13 for England. That might sound weird as he is definitely a 13 and should be better in his natural role. However, in England's defensive system, the 13 is he lynchpin and I'm not convinced he's cut out for that role. I'd prefer to leave him at 12 and have Dingwall take Slade's role for the AIs. Unless Will Joseph is back to fitness and form with Quins - I think he is the long term answer/successor to Slade.

100% with you on the last part. Lawrence doesn't seem like he has gathered enough rugby IQ just yet. Slade's roll as defensive leader hasn't really been celebrated enough this year IMO.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[Which Tyler]

What's that?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gives us more opportunity to continue to look at who's next in line tbf - get Baxter some more games, maybe get Obano in training (though I fear that ship may have sailed)
Sucks for him, and for Quins, but in England terms it's not the end of the world, especially going into the AIs not a 6N (or RWC)

What's that?

Marler has a broken foot and might miss the AIs

 

[BPM]

It's the last year of Joe's contract and honestly. I don't see him signing a new one. He's been a great servant for club and country but Quins have already started moving on with Baxter and England should too.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Marler will be on all the panel shows before we know it. When his foot heals he can go on Strictly.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It's the last year of Joe's contract and honestly. I don't see him signing a new one. He's been a great servant for club and country but Quins have already started moving on with Baxter and England should too.

You think he would retire or move to Japan or somewhere for a final pay day?

 

[Which Tyler]

You think he would retire or move to Japan or somewhere for a final pay day?

Could easily see him in MRL, and probably moving into coaching after playing

 

[BPM]

I dunno. His kids are pretty young and he typically doesn't like to stray too far from the South Coast. I think he'll make a play for media work rather than coaching.

 

[Which Tyler]

I dunno. His kids are pretty young and he typically doesn't like to stray too far from the South Coast. I think he'll make a play for media work rather than coaching.

Yeah, I was thinking USA to stay, rather than just for a rugby contract.
Sadly, you're probably right about media work - probably taking over Healey in the marmite stakes

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Healey does do some excellent analysis though. I love marmite but sometimes hate Healey but you can't fault him at what he picks up, very detailed.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Healey does do some excellent analysis though. I love marmite but sometimes hate Healey but you can't fault him at what he picks up, very detailed.

True, he even makes some funny jokes but his delivery is awful.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Marler will be on all the panel shows before we know it. When his foot heals he can go on Strictly.

He should be pretty good at the lifts.

 

[BPM]

I can totally see that

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Another new England shirt

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

That is properly grim.

Also how tf did Malins get himself an invite to the photoshoot?

 

[Saintjay]

It's ok. I don't mind a little colour at first it looked like it's just plain white again.

I don't think England home shirts can do much. Too all white (RWC shirt) people moan, add some flair people moan. No win situation.