Did Benitez make changes at Craven Cottage to help win the Fulham game or the Milan game

[St Helens RLFC]

This thread is a nonsense. (but I appreciate you're just debating RBS)

It's no business of Sheffield United, Fulham, Everton, Wigan or anyone what sort of team we field. We had sewn up Champions League football by that stage and we're in the biggest game in domestic world football. The fate of other teams is of no concern of mine and not of Liverpool's - and rightly so.

It's Sheffield United's fault they got relegated, not ours. They have been awful all season long and they:

1) Threw away a TEN POINT cushion over the relegation zone. TEN points. 1 win in 13 games at the end of the season. No wonder they went down.

2) Had Wigan at home on the last day with their fate in their own hands. They got level and then failed to do anything at all against ten men.


3) Don't have a tactical plan.

It's all well and good blaming Rafa, Slur Alex, Liverpool, Man United, West Ham, Carlos Tevez, Terrance Brown, Javier Mascherano, the floodlights, the ball, the opposition for turning up, the supporters... at the end of the day Sheffield United have got themselves relegated because they are a poor outfit who offer nothing to the Premiership.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Let's really stir things up by throwing in a hypothetical situation at the other end of the table:

Last day of the season. Everton sit in third, level on point with Liverpool in fourth, but with a goal difference 10 superior to that of Liverpool. UEFA have made it clear there will only be 3 Champions League spots available. Everton must travel to table topping Premiership winners Manchester United on the final day of the season, while Liverpool host nothing-to-play-for Manchester City.

Liverpool need a better result than Everton. It's as simple as that. A possibility with the Toffees going to Old Trafford you would think.

However, Sir Ferguson decides to blood his under-15 side with the ***le already sown up and the FA Cup final in a few days time.

Everton run out 3-0 winners, rendering Liverpool's last day victory irrelevant.

Liverpool lose £30 million in revenue and can't afford to sign Big Name Player #1.

Would you Reds not be slightly peeved? Or would you take it on the chin without comment?

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

This thread is a nonsense. (but I appreciate you're just debating RBS)

It's no business of Sheffield United, Fulham, Everton, Wigan or anyone what sort of team we field. We had sewn up Champions League football by that stage and we're in the biggest game in domestic world football. The fate of other teams is of no concern of mine and not of Liverpool's - and rightly so.

It's Sheffield United's fault they got relegated, not ours. They have been awful all season long and they:

1) Threw away a TEN POINT cushion over the relegation zone. TEN points. 1 win in 13 games at the end of the season. No wonder they went down.

2) Had Wigan at home on the last day with their fate in their own hands. They got level and then failed to do anything at all against ten men.


3) Don't have a tactical plan.

It's all well and good blaming Rafa, Slur Alex, Liverpool, Man United, West Ham, Carlos Tevez, Terrance Brown, Javier Mascherano, the floodlights, the ball, the opposition for turning up, the supporters... at the end of the day Sheffield United have got themselves relegated because they are a poor outfit who offer nothing to the Premiership.
[/b]

Spoken like a true elitist.

I think you'll find that their 10 point cushion disappeared when their best player and source of most of their goals got injured and missed the entire run-in. If you are saying they've no grounds for being aggrieved given the results of the board of inquiry you are just being obtuse. Whether or not you arrogantly judge them to be worthy of sharing a league with them they got here on merit. They have been hard done by both in terms of the Tevez thing and other clubs fielding 3rd string players in games against their rivals.

PS Your third point is just silly and doesn't really make sense. You are better than that.

Moving onto SFW's point then...in that scenario Everton's hypothetical victory would be devalued. The game has to be straight. The league is everything. Everton have fielded a load of no-marks in the past and Coventry City went down 'cause of it (86 or 87 I think). It was wrong then....it's wrong whenever anyone does it. Oddly enough we were on the recieving end of a marvelous act of sportsmanship when Chelsea fielded their full strength side against Bolton (despite the fixure not effecting their league position and them having a European final 4 days later) and we stayed in the Premiership because of it (what's even more ironic is we were playing Coventry that day). Modern football doesn't allow it but it'd be nice but things like the inegrity of the league and the sacrity of the FA cup still remained.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

I haven't even mentioned the Tevez situation - that is an external thing. Again, it's nothing to do with us. Is it right or wrong? I don't know. Does anyone know? There is so much confusion about the whole situation. I know I don't know all the facts. I hope FIFA call an investigation like they are threatening to.

As for the loss of Rob Hulse... again, that's not our responsibility. Injuries happen in football (hence why we were so keen to rest legions of players against Fulham)but the way fat nose Warnock is going on Rafa and the Slur are to blame for EVERYTHING. A ten point "lead" being blown can't be pinned on one player. But it can be on Rafa Benitez and Slir Alex. Warnock is a gobshite, the only reason I wanted Sheffield United to go down is because of him.

I do NOT believe that Neil Warnock had a tactical plan at this level other than "if it moves, kick it in the air." Sheffield United are HORRENDOUS to watch and play horrendous football. They make the dogs of war look like a footballing talent hotbed. They offer nothing to the Premiership other than a noisy crowd. There are two better teams coming up that can add more, possibly three. I am totally indifferent to the teams at the bottom - I see them as six points and nothing else. I don't understand anyone who sees them as anything else.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

I haven't even mentioned the Tevez situation - that is an external thing. Again, it's nothing to do with us. Is it right or wrong? I don't know. Does anyone know? There is so much confusion about the whole situation. I know I don't know all the facts. I hope FIFA call an investigation like they are threatening to.

As for the loss of Rob Hulse... again, that's not our responsibility. Injuries happen in football (hence why we were so keen to rest legions of players against Fulham)but the way fat nose Warnock is going on Rafa and the Slur are to blame for EVERYTHING. A ten point "lead" being blown can't be pinned on one player. But it can be on Rafa Benitez and Slir Alex. Warnock is a gobshite, the only reason I wanted Sheffield United to go down is because of him.

I do NOT believe that Neil Warnock had a tactical plan at this level other than "if it moves, kick it in the air." Sheffield United are HORRENDOUS to watch and play horrendous football. They make the dogs of war look like a footballing talent hotbed. They offer nothing to the Premiership other than a noisy crowd. There are two better teams coming up that can add more, possibly three. I am totally indifferent to the teams at the bottom - I see them as six points and nothing else. I don't understand anyone who sees them as anything else.
[/b]

"it's nothing to do with us."

"again, that's not our responsibility"

And yet people seem to feel free to slag off the manager and state that they aren't good enough.

Give Warnock a trendy club and a G14 budget and I don't doubt he'd come up with something approaching Benitiez's liverpool...then against that's hardly anything to aspire to is it.

He hasn't blamed them for everything....he's had a lot of dignity & good grace. He just happens to be callign a spade a spade on this whole "teams writing off games that don't matter to them" issue. Deep down I reckon you agree with his point....a club should play every game to win, for your own fans as well as the integrity of the league. You are just mindlessly closing ranks when faced with criticism. It doesn't serve anyone....as I said earlier I reckon you are better than that. Don't prove me wrong.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Give Warnock a trendy club and a G14 budget and I don't doubt he'd come up with something approaching Benitiez's liverpool...then against that's hardly anything to aspire to is it.[/b]

If 2 European Cup Finals, an FA Cup Final and a League Cup final in 3 years is something that you don't want to aspire to, fair enough.

he's had a lot of dignity & good grace. He just happens to be callign a spade a spade on this whole "teams writing off games that don't matter to them" issue. Deep down I reckon you agree with his point....a club should play every game to win, for your own fans as well as the integrity of the league. [/b]

I want to win EVERY game, ever. However, when you're stuck between a rock and a hard place (you can only finish 3rd and not outside the top 4) you tend to become very apathetic towards games. I wanted to win at Pompey, Fulham and against Charlton but I won't be losing any sleep over the fact we didn't. I would rather rest my key players than risk anyone in a pointless game that means nothing to us - we played Alonso at Pompey last season and he got injured and although he played was nowhere near fit for the FA Cup Final. Rafa has learnt a big lesson from that and rightly so.



And if you think Warnock has dignity and good grace, we must have opposing dictionaries. I think the man is an utter arsehole. I admire the way he speaks his mind, he just chats broken biscuits. Blaming Slur Alex for West Ham winning as well... sorry Neil, United's FA Cup Final is more important to the Slur than your relegation fight ever will be, just like our European Cup Final is to us, and that is just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

If 2 European Cup Finals, an FA Cup Final and a League Cup final in 3 years is something that you don't want to aspire to, fair enough.
[/b]

You get judged on your league performances. Cup competitions require you riding your luck. I'm sorry to hit with truism but stating facts doesn't make me 'bitter' (whatever that means). You can't judge cups as a measure of tangible improvement. He's a lucky manager I'll give him that...but for every West Ham, Chelsea & Milan there's a Burnley, Crystal Palace or Arsenal reserves getting brushed under the carpet. If that's enough for you then let him continue ******* money away on average Spaniards in the hope that the penalty shoot-out run will hold.

I'd rather go far a manager who get's my nearer the top of the league.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

You can use the "lucky" thing all you want - Rafa is a great manager. He's not perfect by any means, but nobody is. And the penalty shootout debate will rumble on. We're good at penalty shoot outs because we PRACTICE THEM! That's NOT luck!

Sure, there's an element of luck in every penalty but it's down to nerve, bottle and ability. Not just luck.

 

[getofmeland]

Do you even want me to comment that was after 4 games...

Try after 38 Games

3rd place vs 6th Place???

I believe 3rd is Greater than 6th...

Last season (05/06)

3rd Vs 11th Place???

see where I am going...

Also what has you manager won? Ours has won 2 Spanish League ***les with his old club, but of course thats not an achievement is it...
He's also won the UEFA Cup, Champions League and FA Cup... but its not achievement...

So are you going to say Seville were lucky tonight, because from what I saw of the penalties in that game they were well taken and well saved penalties...

You mentioned Average Spainards, Who do you mean, Riena?? the Goalkeeper who is considered the BEST Penalty saver/Shot Stopper in the World, Alonso?? Who Barcalona are trying to buy??

I don't hear anyone coming for your Spaniard Artteta, so how good must he be... Then theres Tim "Oh f***" Howard, if he is so good why has Manchester United got rid of him??

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

Do you even want me to comment that was after 4 games...

Try after 38 Games

3rd place vs 6th Place???

I believe 3rd is Greater than 6th...

Last season (05/06)

3rd Vs 11th Place???

see where I am going...

Also what has you manager won? Ours has won 2 Spanish League ***les with his old club, but of course thats not an achievement is it...
He's also won the UEFA Cup, Champions League and FA Cup... but its not achievement...

So are you going to say Seville were lucky tonight, because from what I saw of the penalties in that game they were well taken and well saved penalties...

You mentioned Average Spainards, Who do you mean, Riena?? the Goalkeeper who is considered the BEST Penalty saver/Shot Stopper in the World, Alonso?? Who Barcalona are trying to buy??

I don't hear anyone coming for your Spaniard Artteta, so how good must he be... Then theres Tim "Oh f***" Howard, if he is so good why has Manchester United got rid of him??
[/b]

Yes but Benitez took over a team what was third in the Premiership and hasn't progressed them, He's spending big club money to mark-time. He's jammily come up with a couple of cups so no-one's got the guts to criticise him.

 

[getofmeland]

Hmmm Beating the likes of Juventus, Chelsea, AC Milan to win a Champions League, oh yeah that's Jammy is that...

Then Beating Manchester United, Birmingham, Chelsea and West Ham to win the FA Cup, but because it is Liverpool its got to be Jammy to win that...

Then to get to yet another Champions League Final by beating the Spanish Champions at their home ground, the English Champions and Destroying PSV on their home ground but because it is Liverpool it is Jammy...

The other thing I would like to point at least we are consistent to a degree... we have nowhere near spent the money that Manchester United and Chelsea have spent to win the league, because we haven't had it to spend, so when your trying to compete with clubs who basically have unlimited budget its bloody difficult, surely you of all people can see that... I know we finished 3rd last season, but we were 1 point behind second place, closing the gap in points, this year has not been a good season in the premiership I will admit that, we had a very poor start, and the ***le race was a 2 way battle for a long time, with us just drifting along happily in 3rd place for a long time... hopefully next year there will be a real improvement... But all the fans want are trophies, whether it be European or Domestic... But I wouldn't trade the Champions League Trophy for the league...

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

Hmmm Beating the likes of Juventus, Chelsea, AC Milan to win a Champions League, oh yeah that's Jammy is that...

Then Beating Manchester United, Birmingham, Chelsea and West Ham to win the FA Cup, but because it is Liverpool its got to be Jammy to win that...

Then to get to yet another Champions League Final by beating the Spanish Champions at their home ground, the English Champions and Destroying PSV on their home ground but because it is Liverpool it is Jammy...

The other thing I would like to point at least we are consistent to a degree... we have nowhere near spent the money that Manchester United and Chelsea have spent to win the league, because we haven't had it to spend, so when your trying to compete with clubs who basically have unlimited budget its bloody difficult, surely you of all people can see that... I know we finished 3rd last season, but we were 1 point behind second place, closing the gap in points, this year has not been a good season in the premiership I will admit that, we had a very poor start, and the ***le race was a 2 way battle for a long time, with us just drifting along happily in 3rd place for a long time... hopefully next year there will be a real improvement... But all the fans want are trophies, whether it be European or Domestic... But I wouldn't trade the Champions League Trophy for the league...
[/b]

liverpool fans crying poverty is a bit ridiculous....Chelsea are a phenomonon but Utd have beaten them with a comparable budget. They just have a better manager.

This thread isn't a critique of Benitez. We'll just go round in circles.....it's aimed solely at establishing the veracity of your claim the Benitiez's Fulham line-up was one he judged the most likely to with the Fulham game. At the moment opinion disagrees with and you have conceded too with your answer to my "If the CL final was on the Saturday after the Chelsea game would Benitez have picked the same line-up".

Can we leave this whole Warnock debate as : He's as big an arsehole as Wenger, Benitez, Mourinho and Sir Alex.

 

[getofmeland]

Simple then if its about that game...

Liverpool Dominated it, they conceded, they had decisions go against us, so I don't see how you could call it a side that didn't want to win

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

Simple then if its about that game...

Liverpool Dominated it, they conceded, they had decisions go against us, so I don't see how you could call it a side that didn't want to win
[/b]

I didn't, I called it a game the manager wasn't bothered about winning. I'm sure dickheads like Palleta were absolutely desperate to win....the same way Ali Dia was desperate to impress Souness at Southampton.

At the end of the day Charlie you are incapable of criticising or listening to criticism about liverpool. It's a common trait amongst rednoses. You seem to think it makes you less of a red.

Call a spade and spade..........or a **** on a stick.

 

[getofmeland]

So now your insulting a professional footballer...

What's he ever done to become a ********?? Not sign for Everton?

Also Palleta is a highly rated talent from Argentina and was being chased by Real Madrid and Barcelona before we signed him.

He is still only 21 and has plenty of time to adjust and play an important part in Liverpool..

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

So now your insulting a professional footballer...

What's he ever done to become a ********?? Not sign for Everton?
[/b]

Oh don't be precious...I just said he's not upto it. If I were given a debut for a professional football team I'm sure I'd run round like a ********. I just judged that Super-Paletta et al fitted that image. There's plenty of dickheads played for the blues believe me.

 

[getofmeland]

So your basically saying by comparing a **** on a stick to Liverpool, that you would rather be relegated and play expansive football than win the league, surely the whole point is that managers want to win the league, whatever way they have to.

Back to the point about the Manager not bothered whether the game was won or loss, thats ********, every manager in every league want to win every possible game, but they have to make changes to be able to do so.

For you to come out and say that a manager didn't want to win the game is ********, we put out a strong side who should of won the game, they were unfortunate that they didn't.

For you to say I am unable to criticise my side is a joke, to be a football fan you need to be able to criticise your team, and I do it so often to Dan and other football fans. I believe Liverpool should be winning the league each season with the squad they have, and yes a lot of money has been wasted by us, but we have also bought some good youth in... But we lack what we have lacked for a long long time, A Right Winger and a 20 Goal a season striker...

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

I suppose we've reached one of those impasses where I keep stating facts and you keep refusing to agree with them.

 

[getofmeland]

The best bet is to agree to disagree

but one thing is we are both passionate about our clubs

Been a bloody good debate tho, some good points from both sides I believe, which makes it interesting.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

The best bet is to agree to disagree

[/b]

Nope, I'm not agreeing to that.

I am busy making phone-calls to get Warnock installed as liverpool boss. He's under instructions to win the league just to spite you.