[COVID-19] General Discussion

[General Melchett]

In a year or two many office workers will look back in disbelief that they actually used to go into the office five days a week. I can see the 3:2 or 2:3 ratio taking off. I can also see people working from coffee shops and pubs more.

Another factor is ergonomics. Most people do not have the same quality of office furniture at home and I can see people investing (perhaps with some employer assistance) in a good quality office chair, desk and monitor that will allow people to work effectively at home without getting neck issues etc.

 

[ncurd]

In a year or two many office workers will look back in disbelief that they actually used to go into the office five days a week. I can see the 3:2 or 2:3 ratio taking off. I can also see people working from coffee shops and pubs more.

Another factor is ergonomics. Most people do not have the same quality of office furniture at home and I can see people investing (perhaps with some employer assistance) in a good quality office chair, desk and monitor that will allow people to work effectively at home without getting neck issues etc.

Another complex issue is internet/electricity usage my bill go up but my wages don't.

 

[Reiser99]

Sounds like Roche has come up with a reliable antibody test. While the virus still isn't fully understood, this has to be a step in the right direction.

My concern is that as far as I'm aware, there is no sure evidence that people are completely immune or can't spread it even with antibodies. It's all well and good knowing who has had it, but I can see certain governments putting all their eggs into this basket and saying that if you have antibodies your fine when that may not be the case.

 

[General Melchett]

Another complex issue is internet/electricity usage my bill go up but my wages don't.

Part of the cost saving in office space will surely go towards a monthly WFH allowance which would cover an appropriate portion of broadband, furniture wear and tear etc. Some employers may even provide smaller pieces of equipment such as monitors and scanner/printers.

 

[ncurd]

My concern is that as far as I'm aware, there is no sure evidence that people are completely immune or can't spread it even with antibodies.

Is that really the case? I really try to avoid the news a lot at the moment but what are the experts actually saying on this front? I ask because every time it gets bought it appears to be hearsay from the internet with no direct links to anything concrete.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Our managing partner has sent an e-mail update saying he can't for-see the office opening up any time soon and not until September and we are a medium sized office of about 90 people. He said relying on the alert level to go down to 2 and most likely 1 before opening up to allow everyone back.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is that really the case? I really try to avoid the news a lot at the moment but what are the experts actually saying on this front? I ask because every time it gets bought it appears to be hearsay from the internet with no direct links to anything concrete.

A paper published by the CDC a few days ago basically says they don't know.
It looks like immunity is possible but there's not been enough study into/evidence of it to say it with any confidence

In summary, existing limited data on antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 and related coronaviruses, as well as one small animal model study, suggest that recovery from COVID-19 might confer immunity against reinfection, at least temporarily. However, the immune response to COVID-19 is not yet fully understood and definitive data on postinfection immunity are lacking. Amidst the uncertainty of this public health crisis, thoughtful and rigorous science will be essential to inform public health policy, planning, and practice.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097

 

[Reiser99]

Is that really the case? I really try to avoid the news a lot at the moment but what are the experts actually saying on this front? I ask because every time it gets bought it appears to be hearsay from the internet with no direct links to anything concrete.

Olyy's linked some articles. I'm sure that the test will be useful and will help, but if the government use it as an absolute yes or no to return to work then it could well be premature and more harmful. I really don't want them trying to experiment on the British public again to see if it does confirm immunity, like they did with their herd immunity idea.

 

[ncurd]

A paper published by the CDC a few days ago basically says they don't know.
It looks like immunity is possible but there's not been enough study into/evidence of it to say it with any confidence

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097

I'm just adding whilst it was published and is written well enough I don't understand any of the science (because why would I, I'm a layman on this stuff).

Disclaimer: The findings and conclusions in this report are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official views of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

However its fair enough I just got tired of people asserting it to be fact. Sounds like they think it will but they can't be certain and don't have enough data unsure how you get enough data though....

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think there was some suggestion of reinfection from Korea or somewhere where the tests were found to be faulty.

As I understand it the Roche test gives entirely consistent, reliable results. That has to be good but in terms of wider policy is useless without a deeper understanding of how the virus behaves including reinfection rates.

One of my colleagues has just paid £90 for a private test - not the Roche one.

 

[Amiga500]

Given the difficultly in proving a negative, which is making the WHO et al very cautious in their proclamations, I suppose we can flip the question around a bit...

How many viruses are there out there for which having antibodies does not mean your immune?

 

[Reiser99]

Given the difficultly in proving a negative, which is making the WHO et al very cautious in their proclamations, I suppose we can flip the question around a bit...

How many viruses are there out there for which having antibodies does not mean your immune?

It also doesn't take into account the virus mutating. That's why cold and flu are so persistent, they constantly mutate.

 

[Which Tyler]

In a year or two many office workers will look back in disbelief that they actually used to go into the office five days a week. I can see the 3:2 or 2:3 ratio taking off. I can also see people working from coffee shops and pubs more.

Another factor is ergonomics. Most people do not have the same quality of office furniture at home and I can see people investing (perhaps with some employer assistance) in a good quality office chair, desk and monitor that will allow people to work effectively at home without getting neck issues etc.

I hope so on the former - and I hope not on the latter.

I'll confess my bias though - I'm a chiropractor...

Given the difficultly in proving a negative, which is making the WHO et al very cautious in their proclamations, I suppose we can flip the question around a bit...

How many viruses are there out there for which having antibodies does not mean your immune?

Depends what you mean by "immune"
Some viruses mutate quickly, or have many different strains, so you're immunity is present, but out of date a few weeks later.
Some provide immunity that tapers off without booster.
Some viruses mutate slowly, or have a few different strains, so you're immunity is out of date a few years later.
Some few provide immunity for life.

Example - plenty of people will get the common cold 2 or 3 times each winter. Flu vaccine is different each year as they have to estimate which strains they think are going to be rife (and if they're right in foresight, they'll be wrong in hindsight, almost by definition). A one-off polio vaccine should see you immune for life.

 

[stus768]

Part of the cost saving in office space will surely go towards a monthly WFH allowance which would cover an appropriate portion of broadband, furniture wear and tear etc. Some employers may even provide smaller pieces of equipment such as monitors and scanner/printers.

A lot of people will save money on travel costs that could go some way to making up the difference. Relies on more flexible season tickets though.

 

[Amiga500]

It also doesn't take into account the virus mutating. That's why cold and flu are so persistent, they constantly mutate.

This version of Corona virus *seems* fairly stable though - given how far and wide it has spread and case mortality is fairly consistent (except in cases where healthcare is overwhelmed).



edit: and the last thing I'd want is my employer buying me office furniture. Cheap 20" 1280x1024 monitors? F88k that^2.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

my wifes company has already said outright they will make everyone work at least part of the week from home....but wont pay anything towards setting up an office space (ignoring so many people dont have an area spare for an office).....i can see loads of health claims coming pretty quick for back injuries etc because we know lots of people will go for the cheapest option when it means they have to pay for it themselves, dining tables with non adjustable chairs etc

 

[Umaga's Witness]

@ncurd, my understanding is that the mutations have been slow and mild, therefore reinfection is less likely and a single vaccine could be sufficient, rather than having to develop one for different strains. I don't think my sources are biased, they are certainly not media based but it is possible they are influenced by big pharma or governments.

the evidence is currently insufficient to confirm for sure though, so they could only speculate.

 

[ncurd]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1261017121078861826?s=19

 

[ncurd]

**** me sometimes I'm really happy to live in my bubble echo chamber, just seen a person asking for how to get his kid tested (he asked my sister about it) refer to it Chinese Aids....

 

[Bada-Bing!]

**** me sometimes I'm really happy to live in my bubble echo chamber, just seen a person asking for how to get his kid tested (he asked my sister about it) refer to it Chinese Aids....

I am Ethnically chinese and when I hear things like that I remind myself that this just reflects the ignorance of people who say them (yeah including Trump) rather than a reflection of me. They just don't think before they say **** like that because they think they can justify it in their own narrow minds.