[COVID-19] General Discussion

[TRF_Olyy]

Just the word Zoom fills me with dread, now.
Swear I've seen more of my coworkers faces than when I was working in office - much preferred speaking to the back of a monitor than a grainy webcam

 

[Alanx7]

I find music helps.....mind you I always have..

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Russia reporting 10,000 new cases.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics all over the place here. Who knows when / whether the whole truth will come out, but the only certainty is that both in the UK and elsewhere there have been, and will continue to be, a shed load of avoidable deaths.

In normal times I commute 25 miles each day into London. My job should be fairly secure (as should Mrs OH's) and I can work from home, but it's soul destroying and if I never see another Zoom meeting it will be too soon. I can't walk or cycle into work and the thought of public transport until there's a treatment / vaccine is just horrible. So I'm resigned to my current situation for the long term. Touch wood, no-one in our immediate circle has gone down with the virus and I am very aware that compared to large swathes of the population we are extremely lucky and really don't have anything to complain about. I know that and I totally accept that lockdown relaxations can't be cavalier, but that doesn't stop days like today where the frustrations overwhelm the rational. I don't think the men in white coats will be coming for me just yet and Mrs OH is very good at dispensing tough love to snap me out of it when I get all morose and gloomy, but it's easy to see that there is going to be a substantial mental health toll on the back of this.

Right, better prepare for my 11.30 Zoom.....

Tough ******* week this one! It's getting to absolutely everyone I talk to.

 

[ncurd]

Tough ******* week this one! It's getting to absolutely everyone I talk to.

The Boris cheerleaders who support him regardless don't help. I think a lot of people including myself were expecting a clear and concise plan similar to NZ or Ireland and what we got was it written on back of a fag packet and government minister not even knowing the precise detail. A 50 page document was produced but what I heard from those who read it its mainly just waffle. Its led to a lot of fed up people, not to also mention it appears a non insignificant amount of population read the address as end of lockdown WOOOOOOO.

I saw meme that made me see red last night (luckily I was too busy to reply) moaning Starmer had asked for a plan then asking why they released the plan so soon. The issue isn't they released the plan its the fact its clearly not anywhere finished yet leading to confusion and anger. Also why isn't it damn well finished? I know its not simple but other nations managed it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tough ******* week this one! It's getting to absolutely everyone I talk to.

Aye, mood has definitely shifted this week.
Few of my mates starting to think they won't have jobs to go back to after furlough - and then the prospect of entering the job market after all this.....yeah.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Russia reporting 10,000 new cases.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics all over the place here. Who knows when / whether the whole truth will come out, but the only certainty is that both in the UK and elsewhere there have been, and will continue to be, a shed load of avoidable deaths.

In normal times I commute 25 miles each day into London. My job should be fairly secure (as should Mrs OH's) and I can work from home, but it's soul destroying and if I never see another Zoom meeting it will be too soon. I can't walk or cycle into work and the thought of public transport until there's a treatment / vaccine is just horrible. So I'm resigned to my current situation for the long term. Touch wood, no-one in our immediate circle has gone down with the virus and I am very aware that compared to large swathes of the population we are extremely lucky and really don't have anything to complain about. I know that and I totally accept that lockdown relaxations can't be cavalier, but that doesn't stop days like today where the frustrations overwhelm the rational. I don't think the men in white coats will be coming for me just yet and Mrs OH is very good at dispensing tough love to snap me out of it when I get all morose and gloomy, but it's easy to see that there is going to be a substantial mental health toll on the back of this.

Right, better prepare for my 11.30 Zoom.....

Our firm had a social zoom meeting and there was about 20 of us on there and this was with some people drinking. Initially it's great and good to see people again after a good 2 months, but then you get like get the posers and want to show off their dog, kid; one showed their stuff toy, which is fine. Then you get a few who start talking and others who don't and it's a bit awkward and you get a bunch of people just staring at their webcam not saying anything. I logged off after about half an hour.

they are supposed to have another one soon, with questions and answers, which will be useful for those of us on Furlough wondering WTF is going to happen to our jobs after July.

But if there is one thing that I think this current crisis has shown is what a waste of time the daily commute is into London. What office life will look like in 2021 assuming we have found a mass vaccine by then, will be very interesting.

But yeah mental health is going to be a big side effect from this crisis - more domestic abuse, more drinking/smoking and drug taking in the wider society on the back of this.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I saw meme that made me see red last night (luckily I was too busy to reply) moaning Starmer had asked for a plan then asking why they released the plan so soon. The issue isn't they released the plan its the fact its clearly not anywhere finished yet leading to confusion and anger. Also why isn't it damn well finished? I know its not simple but other nations managed it.

Agreed, but I'd rather they'd taken their time to get it right and got consistent messaging sorted out. Boris' address to the nation was a shambles and you've subsequently had his lightweight ministers giving all kinds of mixed messaging.

It's a mess. We've even had Water UK publicly correcting Johnson after he mistakenly said COVID-19 could be detected in the water supply ffs.

Whatever you think of Johnson (and for most on here it's not much) to me he looks like a man who is still ill and incredibly stressed - is he actually fit enough to lead, has he followed medical advice?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

But if there is one thing that I think this current crisis has shown is what a waste of time the daily commute is into London. What office life will look like in 2021 assuming we have found a mass vaccine by then, will be very interesting.

Won't it?

One of the best things I've read recently was in The Times. Hidden behind a paywall, but the headline gives a good flavour

"Office life is more precious than we admit

Zoom meetings are no substitute for the interaction and camaraderie of the workplace".

Totally chimed with me. Eventually I can see my working pattern changing to something like 50/50 home & office which I could prob live with, but I wouldn't want a higher ratio. Even the commute plays its part in clearing your head and separating your work and home lives.

 

[General Melchett]

Whatever you think of Johnson (and for most on here it's not much) to me he looks like a man who is still ill and incredibly stressed - is he actually fit enough to lead, has he followed medical advice?

This is the problem when you elect a party leader on the basis that he is deemed to be your best chance of winning an election as opposed to being the best candidate to run the country for five years. The Sunday Times article was pretty damning and suggests that he's not exactly a workaholic. If you have aspirations to be PM then you should be prepared to put a shift in and work around the clock.

 

[ncurd]

I'll be on 50% office/home at some point and I actually would like that to be permanent. There are some advantage to home working I quite enjoy but I could do with being in the office more regularly.

 

[ncurd]

Whatever you think of Johnson (and for most on here it's not much) to me he looks like a man who is still ill and incredibly stressed - is he actually fit enough to lead, has he followed medical advice?

Starmer is also tearing him apart. As he refuses to admit or own up to mistakes he just looks completely out of his depth (which he probably is, his mayoral time was hardly a glowing record and time in the foreign office). As noted we have PM on their ability to win an election not actually govern especially in crisis.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Won't it?

One of the best things I've read recently was in The Times. Hidden behind a paywall, but the headline gives a good flavour

"Office life is more precious than we admit

Zoom meetings are no substitute for the interaction and camaraderie of the workplace".

Totally chimed with me. Eventually I can see my working pattern changing to something like 50/50 home & office which I could prob live with, but I wouldn't want a higher ratio. Even the commute plays its part in clearing your head and separating your work and home lives.

yeah don't get me wrong. I do actually miss office life at times and interacting with my work colleagues in person, but who I still keep in contact with on WhatsApp.

My commute before this was an hour door to door so wasn't too bad compared to others. So yeah a split of maybe 3 days in the office and 2 days WFH is a nice balance.

Staggered office hours and one way in and out of offices. Not sure how they will manage desk space. I sit in a bank of 4 and whether this will mean 2 to a bank of desks. Rotas on who can come into the office etc. Even dread to think wearing masks whilst typing away.

 

[ncurd]

Even dread to think wearing masks whilst typing away.

Yeah masks are kinda a deal breaker for me. Not only are they ineffective and science on them dubious (not my words, my infection control specialist friend). I also find any face covering calustrphobic. I'll be trying to stay at home if required to wear one constantly.

We will have a policy if you are within 2 meters of someone and I can accept that. As there little reason to do so except in certain circumstances.

 

[Reiser99]

Won't it?

One of the best things I've read recently was in The Times. Hidden behind a paywall, but the headline gives a good flavour

"Office life is more precious than we admit

Zoom meetings are no substitute for the interaction and camaraderie of the workplace".

Totally chimed with me. Eventually I can see my working pattern changing to something like 50/50 home & office which I could prob live with, but I wouldn't want a higher ratio. Even the commute plays its part in clearing your head and separating your work and home lives.

Thing is companies have finally realised how much money they can save by not having offices. If productivity doesn't drop then more and more companies will have people working from home. I can't see offices disappearing completely, but the era of large offices with all employees is dying and this will only speed it up. It could also lead to more flexible working hours where people work what they want as long as they meet targets.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yeah masks are kinda a deal breaker for me. Not only are they ineffective and science on them dubious (not my words, my infection control specialist friend). I also find any face covering calustrphobic. I'll be trying to stay at home if required to wear one constantly.

We will have a policy if you are within 2 meters of someone and I can accept that. As there little reason to do so except in certain circumstances.

wore one for the first time yesterday as had to get stuff from Tescos. I didn't think it was too bad. But it depends on the mask you're wearing I suppose. I was also told I wasn't wearing it properly, when I showed a pic of myself to a friend. So will have to adjust next time. It wasn't tight to my face so not so claustrophobic.

But yeah don't doubt your friend and the effectiveness of wearing one. Was scolding my dad for buying them 2 months ago saying they weren't either.

But I can see that if worn properly and in conjunction with Effective hand washing and keeping 2m apart then it could be beneficial. Well Until a vaccine is found. What other realistic measures can we use to get society back to some normality. There's also the cultural aspect, which hasn't yet developed here like in East Asia. Where there is a train of thought that you wear one to symbolize solidarity and that you care for your fellow citizen to show you are attempting to stop any spread from yourself to others.

I would wear one if on the tube next time I am on there, where social distancing is next to impossible.

 

[ncurd]

Thing is companies have finally realised how much money they can save by not having offices. If productivity doesn't drop then more and more companies will have people working from home. I can't see offices disappearing completely, but the era of large offices with all employees is dying and this will only speed it up. It could also lead to more flexible working hours where people work what they want as long as they meet targets.

Targets and flexible working hours are complex, it allow program managers to set unrealistic goals on the assumption the employees will work extra hours. Its general pitfall of being a salaried employees you don't want a culture of 11 hour working days (like I did yesterday to finish something off) as a regular thing. There is also a complication in billing whilst I am not paid hourly my time is still logged against a project and if the external contract of working is X employee hours I can only work that time on it. Hours have to be precisely logged for auditing and regulation purposes. Its particular prickly around US defence contracts where failure to properly report work done can lead to huge fines and potentially the entire company being blacklisted.

I do think it'll lead to more flexible working hours as long as a set of core hours are maintained, in this I've been allowed to work whatever I want provided I am available at my laptop between 9:30-12:00, 14:00-16:30 (15:30 on a Friday). I could even see those core hours decreasing.

I do think we'll see more home working I don;t know the actual numbers but I think employers have always feared a huge decrease in productivity. I know I haven't been as effective but it hasn't been the massive drop off I expected I imagine may employers will be hotly reading it as office space is hugely expensive. I think most of my billable rate comes from the cost of maintaining the office (and profit) rather than my salary which a very small portion.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Thing is companies have finally realised how much money they can save by not having offices. If productivity doesn't drop then more and more companies will have people working from home. I can't see offices disappearing completely, but the era of large offices with all employees is dying and this will only speed it up. It could also lead to more flexible working hours where people work what they want as long as they meet targets.

Personally I find I am not as effective working from home compared to working in the office. Too many distractions. Still, I get your point about cost saving.

I still have justify my time on a timesheet and this is in turn is reflected in the billing of clients.

 

[ncurd]

wore one for the first time yesterday as had to get stuff from Tescos. I didn't think it was too bad. But it depends on the mask you're wearing I suppose. I was also told I wasn't wearing it properly, when I showed a pic of myself to a friend. So will have to adjust next time. It wasn't tight to my face so not so claustrophobic.

But yeah don't doubt your friend and the effectiveness of wearing one. Was scolding my dad for buying them 2 months ago saying they weren't either.

But I can see that if worn properly and in conjunction with Effective hand washing and keeping 2m apart then it could be beneficial. Well Until a vaccine is found. What other realistic measures can we use to get society back to some normality. There's also the cultural aspect, which hasn't yet developed here like in East Asia. Where there is a train if thought that you wear one to symbolize solidarity and that you care for your fellow citizen to show you are attempting to stop any spread from yourself to others.

I would wear one if on the tube next time I am on there, where social distancing is next to impossible.

There are several issues, one that I wasn't aware of is that fabric used on most home made ones which actually increase your chances of getting the disease rather than not because it dampens the area around the mouth. In fact from what I was told in just about every measurable way they increase your ability to get it, they may have effect in stopping you spread it (in which case you should be at home with even the slightest idea you have come into contact with it). In addition they are absolutely proven to give people a confidence they should not have and take greater risks.

As to wearing one properly, I think she said after training many people over years you are almost certainly not even if you think you are. She is extremely miffed (there have been a lot of swear words) direct words "So the guidance. Its officially tosh. Science has left the building. That is all"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

My company has said they'll be rethinking their WFH policy after this is all over, because it's worked so well now. Think they're going to be doing a 2 vs 3 day split, which I'd be happy with.
I've been looking at moving closer to my work, but housing is way more expensive - I'm happy enough commuting 2-3 days a week and saving £1-200 a month on rent by living a bit further afield.

I definitely struggle with motivation at times, at home, but equally a bad commute can throw me off for the whole day - and not having to get up at 6am has been pretty nice. Really the only thing I've missed about not commuting is not going to the gym before work every day (it's way easier to motivate myself to get out of bed and exercise knowing that if I don't go to the gym before work I'll be stuck in rush hour traffic - dragging myself out of bed when I know I can easily get up at 8:59am and still be on time is....rough).

 

[Groundhog]

I think when this is done I wouldn't mind a 3-2 split in office vs at home, not that I would ever be allowed to given my job. Honestly, feel a bit bad saying it, but some parts of Covid have been good for me, I got to move back to Dublin from a house I genuinely hated living in, no commute to work and I can take the **** a bit with lunch breaks and dossing off if its a slow day.
Negatives are pretty obvious, from a work point of view, I absolutely hate the conference calls we have between the random tech issues, people talking over each other and how long they drag on. I was also set to move abroad for work last month which is obviously on hold for the time being.
It's nice to have a roadmap now where you can look forward to certain things opening up every few weeks and being able to have a beer with mates in the back garden soon for example or small house visits and eventually sport coming back.