[COVID-19] General Discussion

[McTallshort]

I agree gloating is very shortsighted.

But EU media etc didn't seem to mind floating when we had the worst death toll.

And they are in this position because they have been playing politics with one of the Vaccines.

Dont think anyone is gloating but it is frustrating knowing the EU has millions of Vaccines that they have put their population off from having

 

[Reiser99]

I agree gloating is very shortsighted.

But EU media etc didn't seem to mind floating when we had the worst death toll.

And we didn't gloat when they were higher? When Italy had a higher death toll at the beginning the government consistently showed European figures while we were below them and then they disappeared like magic as soon as we went above them. Reality is both sides have played politics. We came of worse for the majority of the pandemic and it's only in the vaccine have we got something right.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

And we didn't gloat when they were higher? When Italy had a higher death toll at the beginning the government consistently showed European figures while we were below them and then they disappeared like magic as soon as we went above them. Reality is both sides have played politics. We came of worse for the majority of the pandemic and it's only in the vaccine have we got something right.

When did I say we didn't gloat?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

On balance I feel we have done far more to fan the flames of distrust and resentment between the UK and EU than the EU has. The vaccine is just being used as another stick to attempt to beat the EU with. The EU has royally ****** up the vaccine procurement and it's surprising they don't have greater production and research into it themselves considering they want to position themselves as a leading economy?

However the Johnson government has been deceitful beyond what is the base level of deceit for politicians both to the EU and the British people. They have shown extreme incompetence and it's really quite lucky that this went right otherwise they would have had a 100% failure rate on all their decisions relating to covid.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Defo mine is in terms of hand washing since last year and putting hand-gel on.
Mask wearing will be with us for the forseeable future I think. When I got a cough pre pandemic it would take 3 weeks to get over it.

But yes, like SE Asian economies there'll be peeps I am sure who'll continue to wear them - like a comfort blanket. But also those who'll refuse after having their vaccines because they find them uncomfortable or no longer see the point.

Personally I don't think it's that big a sacrifice to continue wearing masks where needed indoors when in close proximity to peeps.

The other thing is pollution when our and about for peeps walking and breathing in. Traffic fumes near busy roads. Even if it is the perception to filter out harmful particles in the air.

Yeah, and we have bush fires, I remember when it first kicked off last year I already had n95 masks at home from a couple of weeks earlier when the bush fires were blanketing the state in smoke

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

And they are in this position because they have been playing politics with one of the Vaccines.

You're going to have to explain that one? They certainly look far worse because they played politics following their botched procurement, which was a sound idea very poorly executed. And playing politics doesn't look good on the EU whatsoever, gives a bit of credence to some brexiteers claims and is doing no one any good, but it's not the reason for the mess.

Dont think anyone is gloating but it is frustrating knowing the EU has millions of Vaccines that they have put their population off from having

They haven't really done this, the AZ rollout was delayed by a week, I'm dead set against that, but no vaccines have been wasted as a result. It's probably a similar feeling over there as it was here when AZ didn't fulfil their contractual obligations and proceeded to offer the UK more vaccines.

I think most of the current distrust is being amplified by AZ's directors conducting their initial negotiations recklessly at best and in total bad faith at worst. The reaction from the EU has been incredibly weak, I hope it's not a sign of what's to come in VDL's commission because it's a huge anomaly to how they've run to this point.

On balance I feel we have done far more to fan the flames of distrust and resentment between the UK and EU than the EU has. The vaccine is just being used as another stick to attempt to beat the EU with. The EU has royally ****** up the vaccine procurement and it's surprising they don't have greater production and research into it themselves considering they want to position themselves as a leading economy?

However the Johnson government has been deceitful beyond what is the base level of deceit for politicians both to the EU and the British people. They have shown extreme incompetence and it's really quite lucky that this went right otherwise they would have had a 100% failure rate on all their decisions relating to covid.

Nail on the head, I'll wait to see how it pans out long term but for a union that has legislated very much in favour of Big Pharma the initial roll out his been shockingly bad and the resorting to petty squabbling and borderline smearing has been immensely disappointing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They haven't really done this, the AZ rollout was delayed by a week, I'm dead set against that, but no vaccines have been wasted as a result. It's probably a similar feeling over there as it was here when AZ didn't fulfil their contractual obligations and proceeded to offer the UK more vaccines.

I think most of the current distrust is being amplified by AZ's directors conducting their initial negotiations recklessly at best and in total bad faith at worst. The reaction from the EU has been incredibly weak, I hope it's not a sign of what's to come in VDL's commission because it's a huge anomaly to how they've run to this point.

I think TS is talking about the anti-vaxx sentiment rather than the delays for additional testing,
There was already a big anti-vaxx wave in mainland Europe (I think France has 45% of people saying they won't take the vaccine?) and then their leaders come out and say that the vaccine doesn't work on old people, and then say that the vaccine causes blood clots, so now you've got even more people going anti-vaxx (or at the very least: anti AZ). Even though they've U-Turned on both of those things, it's still going to stick in peoples heads

Edit: I got the percentage wrong, it's actually much worse:
Only 40% of people in France say they'll take a vaccine,
65% in Germany and 62% in Italy and Spain

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think TS is talking about the anti-vaxx sentiment rather than the delays for additional testing,
There was already a big anti-vaxx wave in mainland Europe (I think France has 45% of people saying they won't take the vaccine?) and then their leaders come out and say that the vaccine doesn't work on old people, and then say that the vaccine causes blood clots, so now you've got even more people going anti-vaxx (or at the very least: anti AZ). Even though they've U-Turned on both of those things, it's still going to stick in peoples heads

Edit: I got the percentage wrong, it's actually much worse:
Only 40% of people in France say they'll take a vaccine,
65% in Germany and 62% in Italy and Spain

Ok, I hadn't kept up with that, read a couple articles there. I was aware that there's a disproportionate number of anti-vaccers in France, it was a huge issue when the NF were making inroads into becoming the leading party so I'm not too surprised with that and with Spain and Italy as a result, they're fairly similar. Shocked by Germany though. At the same time if anyone's to be frustrated it's EU countries with strong uptakes.

Germany look to have more of a problem with AstraZeneca from the articles I just read and have a very good contract with Biontech to the degree it's unlikely to actually be a problem for them. Redistribution around the EU and then the UK should be strongly considered to be fair.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Covid: AstraZeneca vaccine 79% effective with no increased blood clot risk – US trial

Study of over 32,000 people included review of risks of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bada-Bing!]

BBC One - Panorama, Covid: Who Got It Right?

Jane Corbin investigates whether other governments handed Covid-19 better than the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: The countries that nailed it, and what we can learn from them

A year into the pandemic, we look at countries that have had some success in tackling the virus.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Anti vaxxers in the US and their ignorance.

Covid: £5,000 fine for people going on holiday abroad

It is due to come into force in England next week as some other lockdown restrictions are eased.

www.bbc.co.uk

£5k fine for holidays abroad without a reasonable excuse.

Covid travel rules will include 'Stanley Johnson loophole' for second homes

Updated regulations will allow people to leave UK to prepare second homes for sale or rent

www.theguardian.com

Apart from if you have a second home abroad "in connection with the purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property" ? WTF?

 

[Gavin]

Anti vaxxers in the US and their ignorance.

Covid: £5,000 fine for people going on holiday abroad

It is due to come into force in England next week as some other lockdown restrictions are eased.

www.bbc.co.uk

£5k fine for holidays abroad without a reasonable excuse.

Covid travel rules will include 'Stanley Johnson loophole' for second homes | Boris Johnson | The Guardian

Updated regulations will allow people to leave UK to prepare second homes for sale or rent

amp.theguardian.com

Unless you are Stanley Johnston

People will be allowed to leave the UK to prepare a second home for sale or rent, according to new coronavirus regulations coming into force later this month.

The latest restrictions, which will apply from 29 March, will include a list of specific "reasonable excuses to travel" outside the country, including what Labour branded as "the Stanley Johnson clause".

 

[Reiser99]

You known when you're right and then totally vindicated.

'Greed' and 'capitalism' helped UK's vaccines success, says PM

But Boris Johnson immediately retracts the comments made during a Zoom meeting with Tory MPs.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bada-Bing!]

How Taiwan triumphed over Covid as the UK faltered

Taipei’s success shows how lives might have been saved had the UK government acted differently

www.theguardian.com

While we honour the 126,000 who have died so far, let's not forget Bojo's Government contributed massively to the death toll through their lack of plan and dithering to begin with.

 

[McTallshort]

You known when you're right and then totally vindicated.

'Greed' and 'capitalism' helped UK's vaccines success, says PM

But Boris Johnson immediately retracts the comments made during a Zoom meeting with Tory MPs.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yeah it was a joke aimed at the chief whip who was eating at the time but was a bit daft.

 

[Which Tyler]

How Taiwan triumphed over Covid as the UK faltered

Taipei’s success shows how lives might have been saved had the UK government acted differently

www.theguardian.com

While we honour the 126,000 who have died so far, let's not forget Bojo's Government contributed massively to the death toll through their lack of plan and dithering to begin with.

Only to begin with?
What about the dithering in the September / October? the opening ahead of Christmas? the dithering in December / January? the opening ahead of Easter?
Not to mention the mass and often fraudulent cronyism / corruption?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Only to begin with?
What about the dithering in the September / October? the opening ahead of Christmas? the dithering in December / January? the opening ahead of Easter?
Not to mention the mass and often fraudulent cronyism / corruption?

Absolutely.

 

[McTallshort]

Has Angela Merkel learnt nothing about uturns from Boris?

Locking down is the right thing to do not a mistake

 

[Bada-Bing!]

People may quit if forced to work from home, Rishi Sunak warns

The chancellor urges firms not to scrap offices altogether, warning employees may leave if they do.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not sure I agree with Rishi.

 

[ncurd]

People may quit if forced to work from home, Rishi Sunak warns

The chancellor urges firms not to scrap offices altogether, warning employees may leave if they do.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not sure I agree with Rishi.

Yeah definitely not the general thing I'm getting from any conversation I have most want a 2/3 split of some kind.