[COVID-19] General Discussion

[Gavin]

I read that initially AZ said the EU could have 130 million doses of the vaccine by end of March, this was then reduced to 100 million and most recently (last week) to 30 million, whereas AZ said that they could increase the amount of vaccines to the UK.

The suggestion was that AZ was sending EU vaccines to the UK because of some pressure from the UK government.

This ultimately led to the fall out and the suggestion the EU would block vaccines based in the EU from going to GB and most recently NI with the invocation of Article 16.

It also mentioned that the EU weren't going to restrict the export of drugs to treat a Covid case, but the UK government has already banned the export of drugs from GB to EU for the same purpose.

Now this commentator is pro-EU, but did infer that he thought the EU have been utterly stupid in their actions but can understand it as they are trying to fight for the EU-27 nations in whatever way they can.

Regarding the roll-out in the EU it was mentioned that countries could either go it alone or wait for centralised distribution, but noted that Germany have done both and have ordered additional vaccines

 

[RedruthRFC]

however sooner or later you will have to admit the figures provided are by people that want us all vaccinated not anything political.

This is getting rediculous now. I would be grateful if you could tell me where I have claimed anything to the contrary. I'd have thought that me saying "As you say, the procedure you describe should mean that the total of people who have received a vaccination should be accurate and that nobody should be getting double counted.", but apparently not.

My own wifes surgery could vaccinate 40k in 40 days if vaccine was available. Eztrabalate that over country and UK would be vaccinated by early June.

Wow, that's impressive. How many people does this surgery serve? How many staff working what hours would it require to vaccinate 1k people a day? Also, what sort of square footage would they need to devote to achieving this? When I read that the process takes about 20 minutes, it struck me how much space it will take to be able to process large volumes of people safely and how difficult this would be for traditional healthcare settings.

 

[RedruthRFC]

A couple of worrying things I've stumbled across on the Twittersphere recently.

The ONS survey says that the first three weeks of lockdown have only yielded a 10% in case rate. The figure that the government reports is a measure of people who got tested, where as the ONS is a sample of people who were paid to take a test.

The other is more likely to make the MSM. Some are suggesting that vaccination centres will be the next superspreader events. There arre loads of reports of: people crammed in with little social distancing, people wearing inadequate masks, inadequate ventilation and in one particular place biscuits and juice laid out for people to help themselves to!

@duncanb can you advise what your wife's surgery have done to monitor air quality and ensure air flow please? I was today years old when I learned how easy it is to monitor.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ultimately, EU beurocracy led to them signing a shitty contract waaay later than they should have and then being surprised that it hasn't worked out for them. The UK and AZ have been clear that once our contract is fulfilled then the EU can have the vaccines, that come after our 100Mill... If we were looking to hoard then that wouldn't be the case...

If we're in the business of calling out horse ****... The EU signed a more than adequate contract that AZ are in breach of, the issue is that AZ's Belgian plant isn't producing vaccines quick enough, it's being reported as a glitch and has resulted in 50m doses not being produced, nothing to do with bureaucracy.

AZ have either breached their contract by not making their "best reasonable efforts" to fulfil the contract or entered it in bad faith. Interestingly the costs and remedies sections of the contract were totally redacted, I'd be amazed if AZ don't make much, if any profit on this contract as a result, it looks like an attempt to make more from the UK gov initially and the worldwide rollout later on by producing more from the more advantageous plant in Belgium and knowing that the EU can't really touch them because so many MSs rely heavily on pharma.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

so has the contract been published now?

IDK personally I feel that the EU going forward need to maybe look at having countries be in charge of their own vaccinations etc going forward, because surely the process will be a more localised thing.

 

[McTallshort]

I don't completely disagree and I think the EU have ****** it up. One issue that hasn't been made much of though is that some of the facilities where the vaccines are being produced in the UK were funded by EU money when we were still part of the EU, therefore they feel if they helped invest in it, then they should get some benefits.

My main point was that its a contrast in attitudes. Britain is now Britain first, where as the EU is all about working together, even if they don't get it right. TBH part of it is Boris an co signing any deal for vaccines they could regardless of if they would work. Yes it's paid off and is working, but it could easily have backfired.

Interestingly the WHO has called on Britain to share some of it's vaccines once the most vulnerable are vaccinated to other countries. This could very easily turn into a Britain hoarding vaccines narrative.

Actually Who has criticised the EU not the UK

 

[Reiser99]

Actually Who has criticised the EU not the UK

WHO urges UK to pause Covid vaccinations after vulnerable protected to boost global rollout

UN agency to ask countries to make sure 'the supply you've got access to is provided for others’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean UK get's criticised for it's stupidly high death rate (rightly so) surely that counters it somewhat?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I mean UK get's criticised for it's stupidly high death rate (rightly so) surely that counters it somewhat?

That's what I was thinking
We're a floating plague island atm - it's not like we're doing great and are just vaccinating because we've got the supplies.
We're out on our arse, here, and desperately need to to try and counter how bad things are

 

[ncurd]

 

[Bada-Bing!]

A year after Johnson’s swaggering Greenwich speech, 100,000 dead

The government says nobody could have done more but it’s clear poor leadership on Covid has brought the UK to this pass

www.theguardian.com

 

[duncanb]

This is getting rediculous now. I would be grateful if you could tell me where I have claimed anything to the contrary. I'd have thought that me saying "As you say, the procedure you describe should mean that the total of people who have received a vaccination should be accurate and that nobody should be getting double counted.", but apparently not.


Wow, that's impressive. How many people does this surgery serve? How many staff working what hours would it require to vaccinate 1k people a day? Also, what sort of square footage would they need to devote to achieving this? When I read that the process takes about 20 minutes, it struck me how much space it will take to be able to process large volumes of people safely and how difficult this would be for traditional healthcare settings.

Mrs duncanb reply is.
Our surgery is a super surgery we have circa 30k + at one time.
The vaccination area changes from Phizer where we monitor for 15 mins after vaccination to AZ which does not require this.
We have an 8 to 8 urgent care unit attached to us we repurpose areas when vaccination is happening.
The process is people wait outside , called in directed to admin staff who are buddy with a jabbed admin is completed and they are jabbed the jabbed gives a thumbs up if all ok .
If Phizer then directed to wait area for 15 mins if AZ out of opposite door ( usually an Ambulance entrance for urgent care.
Our surgery is also vaccinating for 3 others making our total 50k.
Totals at present 89 % 80+ done , all care homes visited.
Home bound of 70s completed by end of 5/2.
Take up of groups at + 85%.
Square footage is irrelevant as if more vaccine available could jab 500 per x6 days per week rather than 500 per day 2 or 3 times a week.
My SILis also clinical lead for Northants mass vaccination centre.
Cant post link but Google Northants Cronicle and Echo and her initials are PL.
Mrsduncanb and myself hope you are not a doubter, and in her words in the behemoth that is the NHS figues will be under reported as with cases and deaths.

 

[duncanb]

A couple of worrying things I've stumbled across on the Twittersphere recently.

The ONS survey says that the first three weeks of lockdown have only yielded a 10% in case rate. The figure that the government reports is a measure of people who got tested, where as the ONS is a sample of people who were paid to take a test.

The other is more likely to make the MSM. Some are suggesting that vaccination centres will be the next superspreader events. There arre loads of reports of: people crammed in with little social distancing, people wearing inadequate masks, inadequate ventilation and in one particular place biscuits and juice laid out for people to help themselves to!

@duncanb can you advise what your wife's surgery have done to monitor air quality and ensure air flow please? I was today years old when I learned how easy it is to monitor.

Sorry missed air quality on your question.
Mrsduncanb I'm coordinator of vaccine at our surgery, I have never realized air quality could be an issue.
At one end double doors are opened to admit each patient and double doors diametrically opposite let person out at same creating through draft.
I will check monday to insure this correct.
But as West East and blows a gale and people wear coats because of cold assume ok .

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Very good point, completely forgot about the snow already - that explains the dip in numbers on Sunday/Monday/Tuesday and it being more normal Wednesday

first no one remembers I suggested the lions play in Aus/NZ and now this

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Captain Tom hospitalised with COVID/pneumonia

Just read he went on holiday to Barbados last month which seems.....ill advised, considering current world circumstances...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

1.1% of the population jabbed in a day is mad

130k more this week than last, hopefully that increases with the weather being a bit more normal now, and Scotland are starting their mass vaccination program tomorrow (they initially prioritised care homes)

 

[RedruthRFC]

Thanks @duncanb (and Mrs duncanb), all interesting. The high uptake rate is encouraging.

I doubt a lot of things, I'm not sure what in particular youre asking if I'm a doubter of.

 

[duncanb]

Lol not saying you're a doubter just your posts lean towards that area.
Hopefully you welcome the nearly yesterday figures of 600k vaccines delivered or 1% of total in a day.
If supply could deliver then May could see all vaccinated who want it.
Supply will be the control however,not ability to deliver.

 

[Reiser99]

Just some info I've had. My mum (65 in 6days) and her partner (70) went for his first jab in London and they asked if she could have it too on the off chance they said yes, which they did. However, my mum has a friend in Anglesey who is in her 80s who only just got her first jab this week and the same friend knows many people in her age bracket who haven't yet been vaccinated. I know this is mainly hearsay and that devolved administrations are in charge of their own vaccine programs, but it's not good when London/south east England have vaccines to spare and yet 80 year olds in Wales are struggling to be vaccinated. Hoping there is a bit more coordination between governments and the Tories aren't just saying, well you wanted to be in charge so here you go, no help from us.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If it was Pfizer then that's not that rare - there's a limited shelf life once they take it out of storage/open the bottle to start vaccinating,
If there's no shows then the spots need to be filled or the vaccine is just getting binned