Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

[Brigantine]

I think the Sunwolves would have happened even without RWC 2019. Bottom line, Japan has money, and SR is a commercial endeavour.

It's also no co-incidence that they're leaving their African conference and moving to the Australian one, which is in an appropriate time zone.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Surely the Sunwolves were created with the 2019 World Cup in mind, to raise the profile of the game in the country and the standard of opposition their players face on a regular basis. It can't all be about TV, timezones etc, can it?!

I don't think a comparison can be drawn between the Sunwolves and the 2019 RWC. Super Rugby was looking to expand into new markets and the obvious choices were Argentina and Japan due to their affiliations with South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. Using your argument would then also say that the Jaguares were created for the same purpose as the Sunwolves. But Argentina isn't hosting the 2019 RWC and is not bidding to host the 2023 RWC.

Due to so many South Africans, Australian and New Zealanders playing in Japan even before the Sunwolves were created, would have been an option alone to involve Japan in the expansion of Super Rugby, purely because AUS, NZ and SA are looking at ways to prevent their players from going to europe and not be available for international selection.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Sport24 article (which you can take to the bank usually) reporting that the Kings and Cheetahs joining the Pro(14) is set to be announced on Saturday.

NZ Herald opinion piece on the other hand calling for the Sharks to drop out of SR to spare Aussie and make for conferences in NZ x 5, Aussie x 5 and SA x 3 alongside Arg and Japan each with 1 to make up 3 conferences of 5. The gall of this bloke. So the Bulls, Stormers and Lions to travel to and fro Japan and Argentina. The Stormers have already this year had the craziest touring schedule imaginable going to Buenos Aires and back to SA, to NZ and back to SA and to Singapore and back to SA. All the while touring back and forth across SA which isn't a tiny country. I have to say I am getting tired of the moanings of our Australasian 'partners'. My opinion piece would be let SARU drop SR next year all together (broadcasters can sue SANZAAR) and focus on developing the Currie Cup into a product in line with the likes of the Pro12, Premiership and Top14 and see if we can't get on board Europe which makes a lot more sense on a lot more bases for us and also European Rugby; bigger market and our teams will be more competitive than the likes of Italian etc sides to make the ECC and affiliated competitions a better rugby product and more marketable at the only disadvantage of 6 more hours of flight per tour.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Sport24 article (which you can take to the bank usually) reporting that the Kings and Cheetahs joining the Pro(14) is set to be announced on Saturday.

NZ Herald opinion piece on the other hand calling for the Sharks to drop out of SR to spare Aussie and make for conferences in NZ x 5, Aussie x 5 and SA x 3 alongside Arg and Japan each with 1 to make up 3 conferences of 5. The gall of this bloke. So the Bulls, Stormers and Lions to travel to and fro Japan and Argentina. The Stormers have already this year had the craziest touring schedule imaginable going to Buenos Aires and back to SA, to NZ and back to SA and to Singapore and back to SA. All the while touring back and forth across SA which isn't a tiny country. I have to say I am getting tired of the moanings of our Australasian 'partners'. My opinion piece would be let SARU drop SR next year all together (broadcasters can sue SANZAAR) and focus on developing the Currie Cup into a product in line with the likes of the Pro12, Premiership and Top14 and see if we can't get on board Europe which makes a lot more sense on a lot more bases for us and also European Rugby; bigger market and our teams will be more competitive than the likes of Italian etc sides to make the ECC and affiliated competitions a better rugby product and more marketable.

Never ever take to heart what certain Aussie and NZ columnists say. Mind you, neither what some saffers like Mark Keohane says. Their opinions are usually not shared by many. And usually they are way off base. Sometimes I feel they write crappy pieces, just because their isn't any worthy news, and they get paid by article.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Never ever take to heart what certain Aussie and NZ columnists say. Mind you, neither what some saffers like Mark Keohane says. Their opinions are usually not shared by many. And usually they are way off base. Sometimes I feel they write crappy pieces, just because their isn't any worthy news, and they get paid by article.

Fair enough Keohane is a WUM and every country will have their version of him but I do get the sense that a slight majority of Kiwi rugby fans and a vast majority of Aussie ones share this sentiment and I am tired of having to hear about oh the format is unfair this way and that way to NZ and oh, the ref cost us because NZ teams just don't deserve to lose a game of rugby by those posters not giving a thought to the ways in which our teams are undone. Last year I calculated that the Stormers had almost double the traveling kilometers that the Blues did. This year will be worse. As for schedules. We had to play both Lions and Sharks which NZ did not (those two teams had positive win % against NZ opposition last year) which IMO is as good as two of the additional 4 NZ derby games and while we got the Cheetahs and Sunwolves twice instead of once we didn't get to play the Rebels or any Aussie opposition for that matter. So the disparity is not nearly as great as they would want one to believe.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I'm personally a bit worried that if the Pro 12/14/16 start bringing in Canadian/US/SA teams, it will start to just turn into the disorganized mess that is SR

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm personally a bit worried that if the Pro 12/14/16 start bringing in Canadian/US/SA teams, it will start to just turn into the disorganized mess that is SR

To be fair the Pro12 are smart organisers etc. My bigger fear is when you start stretching to a World League in a way that financially it will cost alot to stay running and the air miles on guys will be crazy. Like Northern Hemisphere teams aren't used to doing block trips like ye do in Super Rugby eg Stormers travel to Aus/NZ for 2/3 weeks.

 

[Reiser99]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40583145

Latest BBC article, suggesting possibly 2 leagues of 7 teams, though also apparently protecting derby games as much as possible and also playing an opponent in the other league at least once. They need to make some quick decisions, but also make the right ones as this could blow up in their face. Seems quite complicated and potentially rushed.

 

[munstermuffin]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40583145

Latest BBC article, suggesting possibly 2 leagues of 7 teams, though also apparently protecting derby games as much as possible and also playing an opponent in the other league at least once. They need to make some quick decisions, but also make the right ones as this could blow up in their face. Seems quite complicated and potentially rushed.

Yeah. Seems to be 2 conferences of 7. Rumour is it will be you play everyone in your conference 3 times and other conference once.
That makes 24 games. And will be playoffs then. 2 extra weekends will be in 6 Nations and November supposedly.

 

[Thingimubob]

To be fair the Pro12 are smart organisers etc. My bigger fear is when you start stretching to a World League in a way that financially it will cost alot to stay running and the air miles on guys will be crazy. Like Northern Hemisphere teams aren't used to doing block trips like ye do in Super Rugby eg Stormers travel to Aus/NZ for 2/3 weeks.

But don't you remember how fun the World League was on Rugby 06 / 08 ?! We just need to get someone called Heffler playing 10 for one of the teams...

 

[Stumpy]

But don't you remember how fun the World League was on Rugby 06 / 08 ?! We just need to get someone called Heffler playing 10 for one of the teams...

World League on 08 was the best! Matt Giteau at Scrum Half with Dan Carter at Fly Half. Those were the days.

 

[munstermuffin]

But don't you remember how fun the World League was on Rugby 06 / 08 ?! We just need to get someone called Heffler playing 10 for one of the teams...

Those were days. You start of with guys who couldn't catch a cold

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Not sure what to make of this;

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/12-sa-teams-to-play-overseas-20170717

I could potentially see a 2 way split function for a time with the idea of moving in one particular direction but 4 in one SH tournament, 2 and 4 in separate Euro tournaments and 2 in a Americas tournament is just bizarre for one and I am of the opinion that for a strong test side you ideally want your talent spread between 4 to 6 sides depending on your country's depth in talent. Not sure how clever it is if we do end up running 12 teams across 4 different tournaments...

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Not sure what to make of this;

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/12-sa-teams-to-play-overseas-20170717

I could potentially see a 2 way split function for a time with the idea of moving in one particular direction but 4 in one SH tournament, 2 and 4 in separate Euro tournaments and 2 in a Americas tournament is just bizarre for one and I am of the opinion that for a strong test side you ideally want your talent spread between 4 to 6 sides depending on your country's depth in talent. Not sure how clever it is if we do end up running 12 teams across 4 different tournaments...

US fans seem unclear what the two teams could in the Americas could relate to. They don't seem to think it is anything to do with their new Major League Rugby and think it could be some kind of spin-off from the seemingly defunct PRO rugby.

The Anglo-Welsh cup one seems a very long way to travel for a comparatively low tier competition (compared to Pro12 and Aviva).

I don't see any issue for you guys with the SARU testing the waters in various different competitions as long as no player that is good enough for SR or Pro12 ends up in one of these Anglo-Welsh or Americas teams.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

US fans seem unclear what the two teams could in the Americas could relate to. They don't seem to think it is anything to do with their new Major League Rugby and think it could be some kind of spin-off from the seemingly defunct PRO rugby.

The Anglo-Welsh cup one seems a very long way to travel for a comparatively low tier competition (compared to Pro12 and Aviva).

I don't see any issue for you guys with the SARU testing the waters in various different competitions as long as no player that is good enough for SR or Pro12 ends up in one of these Anglo-Welsh or Americas teams.

The Griquas and Pumas aren't actually all that poor. I have no idea what sort of competition would be in those tournaments. I mean they'd probably struggle badly in SR but wouldn't be far off the bottom placed SR teams. The rest are quite poor though Boland has a lot of potential. Boland has tons of potential actually but we're too close to Newlands and can't keep a hold of any talent from the region... or supporters for that matter. All Bolanders are default WP/Stormers supporters since we don't play in the same leagues. If we can actually keep a hold of talent from our region we'd probably be the strongest SA province. Politics here is probably worse than it is (was?) at the Eastern Province.

A team of SA players that came through the Boland schools (let alone Stellenbosch Uni) - kind of a 'state of origin' side;

1 Steven Kitshoff
2 Schalk Brits
3 WP Nel / Frans Malherbe
4 Andries Bekker
5 PS du Toit / Juandre Kruger
6 Bernard le Roux
7 Schalk Burger
8 Josh Strauss
9 Francois Hougaard / Dewald Duvenhage
10 Handre Pollard /Damian Willemse
11 Willie le Roux
12 Juan de Jongh
13 JP Pietersen
14 Cornal Hendricks
15 SP Marais

Where was I.. oh, yeah. The rest are a waste of time IMO. Given money we could conceivably field 10 decent teams, 6 good ones or 4 very good ones IMO.

 

[munstermuffin]

Not to wake the big elephant in the room. But a lot of players leave South Africa due to issues like safety of their families, less crime rates and things like that. It isn't for money alone.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Not to wake the big elephant in the room. But a lot of players leave South Africa due to issues like safety of their families, less crime rates and things like that. It isn't for money alone.

I think that is a minority of players leaving due to that issue, who were victims of a violent crime. But that isn't the sole reason why they leave. If that was the case why hasn't Rohan Janse van Rensburg requested to leave immediately after he was held hostage in his own home and was robbed and tied up??

Money is the biggest issue for players leaving, especially the white players, they need financial stability for as long as we will have racial transformation (Quota) systems in SA.

 

[saulan]

A team of SA players that came through the Boland schools (let alone Stellenbosch Uni) - kind of a 'state of origin' side;

Yes region wise those players came from the Boland region, but technically, I would say 90% of those players went to schools that are included in WP in the age group tournament (Craven week, etc) (Specifically thing of Paarl Boys, Paarl Gym and Paul Roos). I think that plays quite a role in the players and families of boys growing up there supporting WP/Stormers as well.

Not to wake the big elephant in the room. But a lot of players leave South Africa due to issues like safety of their families, less crime rates and things like that. It isn't for money alone.

That's simply not true, if that were the case, most of them wouldn't return to SA after playing overseas. Most of them do return. It's 95% about the money and players openly admit it. I would say the other 5% is not being good enough/being overlooked for the Springboks and heading overseas to try play international rugby (from my perspective, only Stander really falls into the overlooked category, the rest weren't good enough... maybe WP Nel).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Not to wake the big elephant in the room. But a lot of players leave South Africa due to issues like safety of their families, less crime rates and things like that. It isn't for money alone.

I can fully appreciate that in some cases. As a father of two if I were to move off it'd be too and down to another country being perceived as more safe for my children and better standards in education overall though there are of course 'oases' in SA. It is a very difficult issue to comment on as its down to every individuals personal experiences and perceptions.

I fully believe though that money is very much the prime reason.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yes region wise those players came from the Boland region, but technically, I would say 90% of those players went to schools that are included in WP in the age group tournament (Craven week, etc) (Specifically thing of Paarl Boys, Paarl Gym and Paul Roos). I think that plays quite a role in the players and families of boys growing up there supporting WP/Stormers as well.

We is robbed! That is kinda my point.