Chariot repair shop - What to fix and change

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd be happy to see Varndell for England.
He's gone from overrated at Tigers to vastly underrated at Wasps. Great finisher, decent enough defender, strength and power (shown on his try for Wasps just now). Got a decent boot on him too.
I'd have him over Wade at the moment.

 

[Peat]

True. I think the combo of fitness and attitude (perceived or otherwise) mean that Armitage isn't necessarily a better choice than the likes of Kvesic et al anyway. Like I said we've got so much back row talent in England at the moment and I think Armitage wouldn't even be guaranteed a place in the squad if he was playing in the Premiership.


On another not, anyone currently watching the Wasps game? Dixon for 9? Varndel for a recall?

If you're not watching this game, get it switched on.

 

[Patchey]

Really exciting game so far. And considering that most of each sides EPS players are on the bench there quite a lot of young talent on display too.

 

[Aedaphon]

I think the emphasis should be completely on attack. We know England can put out a good defensive back line, coached well by Andy Farrell. We know, as well, that unless England start converting chances and scoring tries they won't win against strong sides. I also don't think that Lancaster will be too conservative; everyone else will be watching the Lions, so he might as well use the opportunity. In the past he's shown he's not afraid of experimenting.

So, given the current EPS and Saxons, and expecting Cole, both Youngs brothers, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Tuilagi, and Farrell going off with the Lions, I'd hope to see the following start against Argentina:

1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley (c) -- Old head. Might not get binned this time...
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Croft -- There for the line-out and, hopefully, have a greater effect in a more attacking team.
7. Kvesic -- Hopefully takes to international rugby like a duck to water and moves Robshaw into the 6 shirt. Makes up for Croft standing on the wing.
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Burns
11. May
12. Twelvetrees
13. Joseph -- Maybe Daly, but I think Joseph hasn't had a proper chance yet.
14. Wade
15. Brown

16. Gray/Buchanan
17. Doran-Jones/Knight/Thomas?
18. Vunipola/Marler -- Don't think Marler is as bad a scrummager as is being made out, but I haven't seen much of the loose work he's supposed to make up for it with.
19. Robson -- Choose the least bad, really. Don't rate any of the Saxons locks.
20. B. Vunipola -- Would like to see Fraser, but 8 is currently barren compared to all other positions.
21. Simpson -- Put an end to the aerial ping-pong against the Wolfhounds, starting the break that lead to the Fraser try.
22. Flood -- Ford not ready, option of experience should the youngsters in the backs lose their heads.
23. Eastmond -- Utility and class.

Add to that Catt having full rein in the backs and England should try and put another 60 points on the BaaBaas, and aim to score three or more in each game against Argentina. Cobble the remains to play the midweek games however you want.

Love this team but I don't think Barrett is going to be fully ousted from the 12 jersey any time soon. Not that I think he should be either, Barrett is the lynchpin of our defence (even if he doesn't offer much creativity in attack).

Still, in an ideal world that's pretty much bang on what I'd like to see out against Argentina. And most importantly no Ashton anywhere near the 23...

Regarding Armitage, my desire to see him play will never stop I know it's getting a bit late now, but he was certainly the solution to our lack of a heavy ball carrying 8, and, moreover, he's not far off Croft's pace. He runs great support, and moreover, he's big enough and technically skilled enough to wreak havoc in the breakdown area.

Just saying, there's a reason he was voted top as the top 14's top foreign player.

 

[Patchey]

I used to think the same (i.e. Barritt was essential for our defense) but if you look at how Sarries play when he's not at 12 then that idea comes into question. I'm not saying Sarries defense isn't better with him at inside centre but it is still almost as good (from what I've seen) without him. Seeing as Sarries and England seem to have the same defensive model this could also apply to the England team.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I swear that Hartley try shouldn't have been allowed. He was part of the ruck, he was underneath a player that Ashley Johnson was bound onto.

Also the commentators keep pointing out that Wade is coming in quite far when defending, although that's true, I think he's only doing that because he knows he has more than enough pace to cover the man outside him if the pass goes to him.

 

[Patchey]

So Elliot Daly is a better winger than Chris Ashton it would seem, what a peach! If he doesn't go to Argentina there is something wrong with the world.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Terrible tackle by Foden on him, but superb finish.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Again, that last try should have been disallowed, truck-and-trailer... or am I missing something?

Good to see Lindsay playing well.

 

[Crapspray]

Love this team but I don't think Barrett is going to be fully ousted from the 12 jersey any time soon. Not that I think he should be either, Barrett is the lynchpin of our defence (even if he doesn't offer much creativity in attack).

A small part of me hopes that both Barritt and Tuilagi go on the Lions tour, though it's unlikely to happen. I really don't like the thought that England's defence is so reliant on one particular player, (in the same way England's attack is far too reliant on Manu) if it is true that he's the lynchpin. To be fair to Barritt, he played much better against Scotland when he wasn't just a dummy-runner for Tuilagi.

Regarding Armitage, my desire to see him play will never stop I know it's getting a bit late now, but he was certainly the solution to our lack of a heavy ball carrying 8, and, moreover, he's not far off Croft's pace. He runs great support, and moreover, he's big enough and technically skilled enough to wreak havoc in the breakdown area.

Just saying, there's a reason he was voted top as the top 14's top foreign player.

Has Armitage ever shown a want to play for England? He's certainly playing well and it isn't exactly a rare thing to see his name mentioned in an England article, so what's stopping him moving back to an English club? Contract? Money? I seem to remember reading that he annoyed the Johnson management as well, which must have taken some doing, perhaps explaining why he hasn't been included yet.

Having said that, why Tom Palmer and James Haskell got special treatment and Armitage doesn't I'll never understand. I suppose that's the wonderful world of the RFU for you.

 

[Patchey]

Obviously I don;t know the guy but I expect he know all too well that if he wanted to get into the England set up he just needs to move back to the Prem (there are plenty of clubs who'd sign him) and the way he's hyped that'll probably guarantee a call up. IMO neither of the Armitage brothers at Tulon seem to give a monkeys about playing forEngland.

Concerning Palmer and Haskell they were, like Wilkinson when he went to France, already established figures in the England set up and presumably negotiated releases clauses in their club contracts to satisfy the RFU.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Steffon has said in interviews that he wants to play for England, but at the end of the day: He wasn't getting picked while at Irish, so why not move to a much nicer city with a much nicer climate with much nicer paycheque and not get picked for England there instead?

 

[Patchey]

Was he playing as well at Irish though? I can't remember.

 

[Crapspray]

Concerning Palmer and Haskell they were, like Wilkinson when he went to France, already established figures in the England set up and presumably negotiated releases clauses in their club contracts to satisfy the RFU.

True, I forgot about that. Then again, Armitage had played for England before he went abroad.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Was he playing as well at Irish though? I can't remember.

Yep.
He's in the form of his life at Toulon, but he was still going well for Irish.

 

[Aedaphon]

Yep.
He's in the form of his life at Toulon, but he was still going well for Irish.

This is coming back to the Leicester/Sarries/Quins/Northampton set-up that is England. We can't honestly expect that all our best players will come from 4 clubs and yet we pick almost exclusively from those clubs. It's good to see Glos getting a foot in the door recently, but Armitage was well worth a call-up in the back-row, especially given that Waldrom was playing 8 for us before we picked up Morgan.

And of course we're gonna push good players overseas if this keeps happening, it's just about inevitable.

 

[Peat]

*scratches chin* Its funny to make jokes about playing for Glaws being the death of your international career, and what not, but I think it fair to say that Johnson wasn't selecting from a closed shop. Corbs got his debut when he was basically LI's reserve prop. Delon Armitage was LI's outside centre. If you want to go by the theory there's good and bad clubs to be at, London Irish was a trendy enough club at the time. Kennedy got a chance, Steflon did get a few caps, it's hard to think of too many other English players at Reading Pacific who should have had caps by the end of 2011 except maybe Ojo having another shot...

If I'm honest, I look at the fact that neither Johnson or Lancaster really seem to want Armitage, and wonder what we the punters are missing. Seem to recall hearing murmurs that Wells was not too impressed with Steflon's fitness even then.

Maybe one day he'll get his chance and produce the goods and make me look a fool for not being too bothered. But something about it doesn't smell right to me and, as such, I'm somewhat indifferent. Which, incidentally, is also how I feel about JSD these days.

Now, god knows it looks a little suspicious how so much of the England squad comes from those clubs, but if you look at the squad and ask who should be there instead working with Lancaster's prejudices, or who would get in tomorrow if they switched to one of the 'favoured' clubs...

I've got Matt Mullan. Maybe Fearns. Others?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

*scratches chin*

Now, god knows it looks a little suspicious how so much of the England squad comes from those clubs, but if you look at the squad and ask who should be there instead working with Lancaster's prejudices, or who would get in tomorrow if they switched to one of the 'favoured' clubs...

I've got Matt Mullan. Maybe Fearns. Others?

Its possible that in the next few seasons Wasps could wind up having the most guys at England/Saxons levels.

At present: Elite - Launchbury, Haskell

Saxons: Wade, Simpson, Daly, Palmer, Swainston, Mullan, Vunipola.

Pushing claims: Varndell, Lindsay, Myall

Bit back from these guys but on the right track: Wallace, T. Bell,

 

[Peat]

You can hardly count Mullan moving to yourselves next season but include Vunipola who's moving on!

But yeah, Pests have a lot of guys on the right path, interesting you didn't include Sam Jones in the right track section - oversight or not rating him? Same question with Cannon.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

You can hardly count Mullan moving to yourselves next season but include Vunipola who's moving on!

But yeah, Pests have a lot of guys on the right path, interesting you didn't include Sam Jones in the right track section - oversight or not rating him? Same question with Cannon.

I MAKE THE RULES PETER! I know though, I realised that when posting and sort of asked myself 'Is this ok?'

Oversight, I forgot Sam. He's a class act, though nobody seems to have cracked what his best position is yet. I've seen better jacklers but he's a tad more physical and a bit quicker than lots of 7's out there so he cuts it there as an all-rounder. I don't rate him as an 8 because at the back of the pack you need to be able to fend for yourself without support for a while, and his tendency is to burst away from support and get turned over.

Cannon's having a great season - he's a bit like Parling actually - a good carrier because of his ability to pick good lines in midfield. Good hands and learning welwl from mWentzel at the lineout - lock is quite competitive though, there may not be that many Top quality locks in England at present, but there's a hell of a lot of guys with good Saxon level ability. James may find it hard, but we'll see.