Canada vs. Italy (15/06/2012 7:00 p.m. EDT)

[psychic duck]

the match looks very even, both sides have advantages in different areas, but there is no denying this is the best chance Canada have had for some years to get a Tier 1 scalp

I looked up Canada's past results since 2000 against Tier 1,

at the turn of the Millenium Canada probably had one of their best teams, with Winston Stanley, Morgan Williams, Rod Snow, Jon Thiel, Mike James, John Tait, Al Charron, Dan Baugh all in the team, and who were some of Canada's finest players and had good careers in Europe

their best results have been

2000 - 27-27 vs Ireland at Markham, was against the Ireland team at the very of their four time triple crown generation of players, Canada blew a 21-8 half time lead in this match
(Teams) http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/23806.html

2000 - 22-17 vs Italy at Rovigo, a good away win against Italy in the End of Year Tour, Canada picked up three yellow cards in this match
(Teams) http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/23873.html

2002 - 26-23 vs Scotland at Vancouver, still the similar team that beat Italy, Canada's best recent win
(Teams) http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/24229.html

2005 - 22-15 vs Argentina at Calgary, Canada had suffered lots of retirements at this point and the inter 2003-2007 World Cup periods wasn't their best, only won this game because Argentina played a very weak team, this is Canada's last win over Tier 1
(Teams) http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/24981.html

since then Canada have gone 7 years and 13 matches without a win against Tier 1

 

[Canucks]

Fall Tests: Away, in Europe no Tier One opponents. Probably the likes of Spain, Romania, Portugal, Russia etc....nothing official yet(except for the no tier one opponents part).

I might be getting a little overexcited guys but I really think Canada are a match for Italy in a whole pile of positions on the field. If Gori and Bergamasco were starting I would take our chances down a peg. I would say Italy are only markedly stronger than Canada at # 3,6,7. Although there are a fair number of positions where the talent level is fairly even with Italian forwards maybe having a slight edge but Canada having an edge in the backs. I'm also not saying heavy favourites or anything, I picked Canada by 1 on Superbru and Sportguru for the week.

Edit: I actually think Canada playing a little poorly last week, bodes well for this week, getting the fundmentals wrong usually dosen't happen two games in a row since Crowley started coaching.

Yay cheap holiday in Spain.

Really though, if that's who your playing, what's the point of going on tour?
We're supposed to moving up, not down.

 

[LittleGuy]

Yay cheap holiday in Spain.

Really though, if that's who your playing, what's the point of going on tour?
We're supposed to moving up, not down.

Spain have really risen their level of play in the two years since we last faced them. I don't mind seeing a Tier three opponent for the lead in to the tour, in November of 2010 we played Belgium and Crowley used it to field some domestic players and let the professionals rest or stay with their clubs for an extra week.

We also need to give back a little bit to the IRB, if we want Tier One opponents to play us we have to play the game with the IRB and do our part by helping some countries below us. I'm sure England, New Zealand etc. feel a little the same when a test vs. Canada is scheduled. But they are invaluable learning experiences for the lower ranked side.

 

[psychic duck]

Spain have really risen their level of play in the two years since we last faced them. I don't mind seeing a Tier three opponent for the lead in to the tour, in November of 2010 we played Belgium and Crowley used it to field some domestic players and let the professionals rest or stay with their clubs for an extra week.

We also need to give back a little bit to the IRB, if we want Tier One opponents to play us we have to play the game with the IRB and do our part by helping some countries below us. I'm sure England, New Zealand etc. feel a little the same when a test vs. Canada is scheduled. But they are invaluable learning experiences for the lower ranked side.

thanks to their new tactic of searching for journeyman French Top 14/Pro D2 players with some Spanish connection

they have managed to get Fabien Rofes, Franck Labbe, Gauthier Gibouin (Bordeaux-Bègles), Adrien Ayestaran (Périgueux), Pierre-Emmanuel Garcia (Castres), Mathieu Visensang (Tyrosse), Mathieu Roca (Aurillac), Mathieu Amoros (Auch) all to play for them over the past year, and it has made their side much more professional very quickly, they finished second in this year's ENC, and have a realistic chance of nudging either Romania or Russia out of a World Cup spot for 2015

they won't roll over for Canada

 

[Melhor Time]

the match looks very even, both sides have advantages in different areas, but there is no denying this is the best chance Canada have had for some years to get a Tier 1 scalp

I looked up Canada's past results since 2000 against Tier 1,

at the turn of the Millenium Canada probably had one of their best teams, with Winston Stanley, Morgan Williams, Rod Snow, Jon Thiel, Mike James, John Tait, Al Charron, Dan Baugh all in the team, and who were some of Canada's finest players and had good careers in Europe

their best results have been

2000 - 27-27 vs Ireland at Markham, was against the Ireland team at the very of their four time triple crown generation of players, Canada blew a 21-8 half time lead in this match
(Teams) http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/23806.html

2000 - 22-17 vs Italy at Rovigo, a good away win against Italy in the End of Year Tour, Canada picked up three yellow cards in this match
(Teams) http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/23873.html

2002 - 26-23 vs Scotland at Vancouver, still the similar team that beat Italy, Canada's best recent win
(Teams) http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/24229.html

2005 - 22-15 vs Argentina at Calgary, Canada had suffered lots of retirements at this point and the inter 2003-2007 World Cup periods wasn't their best, only won this game because Argentina played a very weak team, this is Canada's last win over Tier 1
(Teams) http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/24981.html

since then Canada have gone 7 years and 13 matches without a win against Tier 1

There was a lot of controvercy over the Canada win over Argentina in 2005 because the UAR did not believe it was a test match and officially it was not as it had no impact on IRB World Rankings. I remember well as back on the old IRB Forum there was a discussion at the time a Kiwi Redneck was trying to say Argentina don´t deserve to be in the Tri Nations. I´m sure Smartcooky can recall it quite well too.

 

[LittleGuy]

It looks like there will be a decent crowd out for the match over 10,000 seats were sold as of last night and late sales have been fairly brisk, the weather also looks great for tommorow night which should lead to a few laggards and walk up's picking up seats. The East and West stands will be close to sold out. I'm hoping for 11-12,000 if people move their butts into gear.

Not a bad turnout, I think some very optimistic powers that be were hoping for 17,000 but I think the Italian expat community haven't responded quite as well as Rugby Canada would liked. Likewise it's very good to see the game break the five figure mark it would not have looked good if the crowd wasn't as big as it was for the States last year.

Edit: Planet Rugby has Canada by 5, maybe I'm not the only one drinking the optimism Kool Aid. LOL

 

[psychic duck]

It looks like there will be a decent crowd out for the match over 10,000 seats were sold as of last night and late sales have been fairly brisk, the weather also looks great for tommorow night which should lead to a few laggards and walk up's picking up seats. The East and West stands will be close to sold out. I'm hoping for 11-12,000 if people move their butts into gear.

Not a bad turnout, I think some very optimistic powers that be were hoping for 17,000 but I think the Italian expat community haven't responded quite as well as Rugby Canada would liked. Likewise it's very good to see the game break the five figure mark it would not have looked good if the crowd wasn't as big as it was for the States last year.

Edit: Planet Rugby has Canada by 5, maybe I'm not the only one drinking the optimism Kool Aid. LOL

10,000 doesn't sound too impressive for a rare match against a Tier 1 nation, which Canada have a great chance in, but then still it would equal the second highest attendance in Canada ever for an international according to this (http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/ru...st_attendance.html?host=25;id=200;type=decade)

Georgia got 35,000 crowd for the USA match in 2010, and 25,000 for the Canada match, and has got to 50,000 or 60,000 on a some occaisions normally against Russia which is a match which always sells in Georgia

 

[LittleGuy]

That list misses out on the nearly 11,000 that came out for Canada vs. USA last August at the same venue, I do think the crowd will be marginally higher than the States game and will become the 2nd highest attendance for rugby in Canada. I agree though it would have been nice to see a number approach the 17,000 they were hoping for.

I think they missed out on the target for a couple of reasons....

1) As Canadian Rugger said some sections were overpriced.

2) Most Italian immigrants to Canada tend to be from Southern Italy and Sicily where the game has marginal interest at best. Rugby Canada I think overestimated the amount of people interested in this part of the Canadian populace and spent too much time and money trying to market the game to them instead of casual Canadian sports fans.

3) Friday night instead of Saturday, many people including myself will be commuting in for the game, while it's not that difficult for me as I'm self employed to get off work early, I'm sure some fans from a couple of hours outside Toronto won't be able to make it after work, and Toronto has some of the worst gridlock traffic issues in the world that don't help the situation.

4) The game against the States was in Kingston, which is only 2-3 hours from Toronto, two games in a similar part of Canada probably spread a bit of the attendance over two contests.

5) The game against the States was very well marketed both this year and last year, I'm not sure if the Union's resources are spread thin trying to market three games(their budget is tny it should be available online if you want to have a look), but I didn't hear as many radio ads or see as many TV ads as in last years game at BMO field.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

That list misses out on the nearly 11,000 that came out for Canada vs. USA last August at the same venue, I do think the crowd will be marginally higher than the States game and will become the 2nd highest attendance for rugby in Canada. I agree though it would have been nice to see a number approach the 17,000 they were hoping for.

I think they missed out on the target for a couple of reasons....

1) As Canadian Rugger said some sections were overpriced.

2) Most Italian immigrants to Canada tend to be from Southern Italy and Sicily where the game has marginal interest at best. Rugby Canada I think overestimated the amount of people interested in this part of the Canadian populace and spent too much time and money trying to market the game to them instead of casual Canadian sports fans.

3) Friday night instead of Saturday, many people including myself will be commuting in for the game, while it's not that difficult for me as I'm self employed to get off work early, I'm sure some fans from a couple of hours outside Toronto won't be able to make it after work, and Toronto has some of the worst gridlock traffic issues in the world that don't help the situation.

4) The game against the States was in Kingston, which is only 2-3 hours from Toronto, two games in a similar part of Canada probably spread a bit of the attendance over two contests.

5) The game against the States was very well marketed both this year and last year, I'm not sure if the Union's resources are spread thin trying to market three games(their budget is tny it should be available online if you want to have a look), but I didn't hear as many radio ads or see as many TV ads as in last years game at BMO field.

I think number 2 and 3 are spot on. I always thought they made the wrong decision marketing the game to the Italian community. As well having the game on a friday as opposed to a saturday especially with the traffic was always going to cause problem. Also you have to understand the demographic of the game in Canada. Yes we have a fair number of people interested in rugby; however, the country is huge so the majority of fans can't make it to national team games. Its not a matter of just simply getting on the train or a 5 or 6 hour car ride...

if Rugby Canada were smart they would of given tickets away to all the local school rugby teas (maybe they already dide I am just guessing they didn't)

 

[Melhor Time]

Canada to win this by 2 points!

 

[Nielsch]

The attendance for this match makes it even a bigger shame that Georgia didn't get a Tier 1 opponent. At least they would sell 55.000 tickets and sell out the Boris Paichadze Stadium in Tblisi.

 

[Canucks]

The attendance for this match makes it even a bigger shame that Georgia didn't get a Tier 1 opponent. At least they would sell 55.000 tickets and sell out the Boris Paichadze Stadium in Tblisi.

I don't understand what Canada having a 17000 attendance for a game against Italy has to do with Georgia not getting a tier 1 opponent.
First off, all things being considered, why does Georgia deserve to have a tier 1 opponent at their home grounds? I mean Canada has consistently been a better nation and have never faced a full strength squad from a tier 1 nation at home. Neither have Samoa, Fiji, Tonga or Japan until this year.

The IRB is doing a pretty good job at enforcing proper development of teams. Scotland tour the pacific islands is perfect. Same can be said with Argentina in the Quad Nations. This tour to North America serves it purpose. Italy and Georgia are good sides and Canada/USA rarely get any actual internationals at home except against B sides or Russia.

Seeing as all Unions have to make money, this fair is a fair compromise. Georgia gets plenty of opportunities for internationals against Eastern European competition. As a country of only 4.5 million people with 6000 registered players and minimal at best coporate sponsorship/tv rights, the only way the Georgian rugby Union makes money in by home games. Kudos to them, they make it work and develop well. Last time Canada did a tour, they toured to Georgia. This game was not even televised in Canada so essentially Rugby Canada did not make any money and thus made a sacrifice for the IRB.


That gets returned this year where Canada can cash in a bit. 33 millions people with 73664 registered players coupled with large Metropolitan areas with big stadiums in rugby hotbeds (Greater Toronto Area 6 million people with BMO seats 21,000 - Metro Vancouver 2.5 million with BC Place that can hold 54.000.) Add to that excellent sponsorship opportunites and a strong tv network. While the USA game was not on TV, the Italy and Georgian games will be on Canada's most popular network (TSN.) With over 300,000 watching some of the world cups during the night, both of these games could draw more as they as set to start at the best times for all the different timezones in the country. These games start at acceptable hours for everyone from Victoria, BC to St, Johns, Newfoundland.

It's a shame that Swangard is only non turf stadium in Vancouver. BC Place is a world class facility with state of the art turf (acceptable by FIFA to play World Cup matches on) but IRB won't allow games on it as they have health and safety concerns over turf. Swangard will do ok with 10,000 as it's easy to get to from both Metro Vancouver and Fraser Valley, right next to a major transport link. Same can be said for Rogers Centre but apparently the rent is pretty high.

Canada may not get the sales at the gate due to our geography but we make up for it.

This is the exact same scenario of Samoa touring UK and now Scotland is reciprocating.

As well, IRB has been focusing heavily on the development of their high performance nations and expanding the markets in Japan, Russia, Canada, and USA. Those 4 nations have large populations with corporate infrastructure/television markets in place to make money. You could say this already happened and was successful in Italy and Argentina; to a lesser degree of success in Samoa, Fiji and Tonga as those countries have the development in place but do not have the same infrastructure.

In all fairness to Georgia, who do a great job with what they got and get given, they are a good side but they are far behind on the pecking order for Tier 1 nations at home. IRB needs to grow the game, thus they need to make money. Their main way of doing that is sponsorship and sponsorship only increases when you expand your brand.

This is why the NZRU getting upset during the World Cup. The All Blacks are a highly successful brand who make on average 14 million per tri nations. However, due to sponsorship restrictions by the IRB during the world cup, they end up playing for a lot less while the IRB capitilizes on the All Blacks successful brand.

Unfortunately, rugby is a business.



No for the game:
Anyone know of any online streams? TSN isn't streaming the game. Please make it as simple as possible because when I'm back here after the England game tonight, I may be a bit on drunk side.

 

[LittleGuy]

I'm just about to head down to Toronto and the butterflies are setting in guys, never been so nervous going to a sporting event, the match is really that big of an oppourtunity for Canada. The weather is warm but not humid and just a light breeze should make for fantastic conditions.

I won't be back for a while to my computer probably not back till after 11 p.m. and I'll try to get some photos if I can and upload them here or on facebook.

 

[rusty_lock]

I'm just about to head down to Toronto and the butterflies are setting in guys, never been so nervous going to a sporting event, the match is really that big of an oppourtunity for Canada. The weather is warm but not humid and just a light breeze should make for fantastic conditions.

I won't be back for a while to my computer probably not back till after 11 p.m. and I'll try to get some photos if I can and upload them here or on facebook.

Have fun LG, I feel the same nervous excitement. I've got my RC jersey on and I'm thinking about a quick trip to church b4 the game LOL. Skybet is saying Italy by 8+ but here hoping otherwise.

 

[Canucks]

I just wanted to say that was the most unique anthem ever: A canadian singing in italian then busting off the englsh/french canadian national anthem with a close of mashall singing as loud as he can with one of the kids singing along. excellent tv image.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Canada leading 13-6 with about 5 min to half time

 

[Canucks]

Yikes 13-9. Canada is getting massacred in the scrum. Love Castro using the Tigers/Saints tactic in scrums. Get a penalty from a scrum, then go for another. Canadian is getting beat by experience in that area. Nothing to be ashamed of, Castro does that to most opposing props.

Better ball today from White however the backline needs to adjust the depth. I never understand why Canada doesn't use Mackenzie and Van Der Merwe more often. Most teams would hand the ball to there best attacking players at every opportunity yet Canada has a bit of confusion at points. It's almost as if all of the backline wants to go for a run.

Great try by Trainor. Come a long way from that skin and bones 15 year old playing with 17 year olds.

Could go either way.

Come on Canada.
At this point, I let Rees tell his story about beating Wales to the team. If that doesn't inspire you, nothing will.

 

[Melhor Time]

The crowd is awesome!

Canada looking good for a win too!

 

[Canucks]

A bit gutted abour our backs. We have a very good backline but zero chemistry and they never get any ball. Canada really needs to re-evaluate their attacking strategy. This is Japan all over again. We have an advantage and refuse to exploit it.

 

[Sker]

Score?