Bok squad 2017

[TRF_heineken]

So Whiteley has been ruled out for the EOYT.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Spri...zebeth-to-lead-boks-on-european-tour-20171012

 

[Durbanite]

Well that's annoying. What are the chances we'll see Duane run on? By my dodgy math he should've been fit by now

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well that's annoying. What are the chances we'll see Duane run on? By my dodgy math he should've been fit by now

That's what I was thinking, but he hasn't played for Toulon at all this season. So I guess he's still out.

But with that said, I won't have a problem in keeping our loose trio the same as against NZ, if they keep playing like they did...

 

[Durbanite]

Coenie & Cas confirmed fit for EOYT

Duane is still in his final phase of rehab and won't be available for the EOYT

sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/mixed-news-on-bok-injury-front-20171012

 

[TRF_heineken]

So the bok squad will be announced after the Currie Cup final. Man that's a long wait.

I personally won't pick Cassiem. I'd go with the group we had against the All Blacks.

If I had to pick a squad of 32 players, this would be my squad:

Props: Beast Mtawarira, Steven Kitshoff, Thomas Du Toit, Trevor Nyakane, Wilco Louw, Coenie Oosthuizen
Hookers: Malcolm Marx, Chiliboy Ralepelle
Locks: Eben Etzebeth, Lood De Jager, Franco Mostert, Pieter-Steph Du Toit
Loose Forwards: Francois Louw, Siya Kolisi, Jean-Luc Du Preez, Chris Cloete

Scrumhalf: Ross Cronje, Louis Schreuder
Flyhalf: Handre Pollard, Elton Jantjies
Centre: Jan Serfontein, Rohan Janse van Rensburg, Lukhanyo Am, Francois Venter
Wings: Dyllin Leyds, Sibusiso Nkosi, Seabelo Senatla, Makazole Mapimpi
Utility/Fullback: Curwin Bosch, Jesse Kriel, Warwick Gelant, Andries Coetzee

The guys in Bold are uncapped players.

 

[Durbanite]

Van Graan resigned yesterday, to take up his job at Munster. Does that mean that Rassie will be released earlier and that he will do Van Graan's job too?

Sure seems like it!

"According to the report on the Afrikaans website, the contract between Munster and Erasmus will be terminated October 31.
"Rassie will start working at SA Rugby on 1 November," his lawyer, Frikkie Erasmus said."

sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/rassie-set-for-early-return-to-sa-20171013

 

[TRF_heineken]

Sure seems like it!

"According to the report on the Afrikaans website, the contract between Munster and Erasmus will be terminated October 31.
"Rassie will start working at SA Rugby on 1 November," his lawyer, Frikkie Erasmus said."

sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/rassie-set-for-early-return-to-sa-20171013

And he's bringing Nienaber along with him. That's great news!!

 

[SomeOke]

Rohan in and Gelant in would make a huge difference to our back line. Unfortunately out of 7 backs none of our current incumbents are actually game breakers in the mold of Barret/McKenzie/Ioane/NMS, we need magic guys who can create line-breaks out of relatively nothing.
Those two would do the job without disrupting our back line that much. Bosch is overrated in my opinion (despite him being an EC boy from my old school), he just doesn't have a varied enough skill set yet, now this can absolutely change as he develops but I see no reason to rush him into the side. He lacks physicality, is not a particularly illusive or strong runner himself (he has a lot of pace if he is put into a gap or makes an intercept) so basically his entire game is propped up on his kicking game. I don't think bringing in a less physical Francois Steyn is the answer.

 

[unrated]

I'm very curious to find out what level of involvement Rassie will have. I personally don't think it will be hands on and AC will continue as he sees fit. Maybe Rassie will attempt to change the overall structures of SA rugby or something in that line.
Will obviously be very happy if he and Nienaber can be involved in the bok coaching squad, all these guys know each other from their time together at the Stormers. Nienaber will greatly help our defence especially as Brenden Venter has Indicated he actually wants to work at his practice in Cape Town

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm very curious to find out what level of involvement Rassie will have. I personally don't think it will be hands on and AC will continue as he sees fit. Maybe Rassie will attempt to change the overall structures of SA rugby or something in that line.
Will obviously be very happy if he and Nienaber can be involved in the bok coaching squad, all these guys know each other from their time together at the Stormers. Nienaber will greatly help our defence especially as Brenden Venter has Indicated he actually wants to work at his practice in Cape Town

The way I understood it, Rassie will be AC's boss, and will help the national team in some way. If I'm not mistaken, Nienaber will be directly involved as the defence coach of the Bokke.

As for the players. I think Gelant and Rohan would have to go especially for that x-factor they have. Another guy I completely forgot about, was Kwagga Smith, who just keeps on impressing me the more I watch him play in the XV's game.

 

[AM_Bokke]

Is is possible that Kwagga Smith could play centre?

I have been thinking this for awhile. I know that he plays as a flanker but he has the skill set to play centre right?

 

[SomeOke]

I really like Kwagga and if it were up to me he'd be the loosie I'd call up, sadly he has two major obstacles to the team:
- His size, for me size only matters if you can't make your tackles or make meters because of it, neither of which are a problem for Kwagga but the bias persists in South Africa.
- You can't play two less physical "link" type players in your side and Kolisi is our incumbent man in that role. Even if Kwagga was better we simply can't afford to remove one of our best quota players from the side. Otherwise you'll have to make them up elsewhere and we don't want Rhule back in the side.

I personally think he's great, an out an out jackler, who also has the pace and elusiveness of a winger? Sign me up.

edit: As for moving him to centre I like the idea but it's probably a little too spicy. The Lions don't really need more centres either. Arguably none of the remaining four unions in SR do.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I really like Kwagga and if it were up to me he'd be the loosie I'd call up, sadly he has two major obstacles to the team:
- His size, for me size only matters if you can't make your tackles or make meters because of it, neither of which are a problem for Kwagga but the bias persists in South Africa.
- You can't play two less physical "link" type players in your side and Kolisi is our incumbent man in that role. Even if Kwagga was better we simply can't afford to remove one of our best quota players from the side. Otherwise you'll have to make them up elsewhere and we don't want Rhule back in the side.

I personally think he's great, an out an out jackler, who also has the pace and elusiveness of a winger? Sign me up.

edit: As for moving him to centre I like the idea but it's probably a little too spicy. The Lions don't really need more centres either. Arguably none of the remaining four unions in SR do.

Is is possible that Kwagga Smith could play centre?

I have been thinking this for awhile. I know that he plays as a flanker but he has the skill set to play centre right?

I think it would be a waste to play him at centre. Yes, he's fast and has the skills, but it's the other things he does so well that makes him so good at being behind the scrum. His tackling for example is brilliant. Since Super Rugby and now the Currie Cup, he has been in the top 5 of most tackles made in every game. He's a work horse, and we someone like him in our forwards pack. He can pilfer, and carry the ball too.

For me he's not so much a linking player, but more a work horse like player who can do the linking role too.

 

[George Ford]

So the bok squad will be announced after the Currie Cup final. Man that's a long wait.

I personally won't pick Cassiem. I'd go with the group we had against the All Blacks.

If I had to pick a squad of 32 players, this would be my squad:

Props: Beast Mtawarira, Steven Kitshoff, Thomas Du Toit, Trevor Nyakane, Wilco Louw, Coenie Oosthuizen
Hookers: Malcolm Marx, Chiliboy Ralepelle
Locks: Eben Etzebeth, Lood De Jager, Franco Mostert, Pieter-Steph Du Toit
Loose Forwards: Francois Louw, Siya Kolisi, Jean-Luc Du Preez, Chris Cloete

Scrumhalf: Ross Cronje, Louis Schreuder
Flyhalf: Handre Pollard, Elton Jantjies
Centre: Jan Serfontein, Rohan Janse van Rensburg, Lukhanyo Am, Francois Venter
Wings: Dyllin Leyds, Sibusiso Nkosi, Seabelo Senatla, Makazole Mapimpi
Utility/Fullback: Curwin Bosch, Jesse Kriel, Warwick Gelant, Andries Coetzee

The guys in Bold are uncapped players.

Bok team I'd like to see against the Irish based on available for selection:

15. Warrick Gelant
14. Dillyn Lleyds
13. Jan Serfontein
12. Rohan janse van Rensburg
11. Courtnal Skosan
10. Handre Pollard
9. Ross Cronje

8. Jean-Luc du Preez
7. Siyamthanda Kolisi
6. Francois Louw
5. Lood de Jager
4. Eben Etzebeth (c)
3. Coenie Oosthuizen
2. Malcolm Marx
1. Tendai Mtawarira

16. Bongi Mbonambi
17. Steven Kitshoff
18. Wilco Louw
19. Franco Mostert
20. Pieter-Steph du Toit
21. Rudy Paige
22. Elton Jantjies
23. Jessie Kriel

 

[RedruthRFC]

Looking at the evidence against him, I wouldn't bank on having Flouw available.

 

[SomeOke]

Looking at the evidence against him, I wouldn't bank on having Flouw available.

Maybe there is hope for Kwagga after all, him and Cloete are our last two fetchers.

 

[AM_Bokke]

Bok team I'd like to see against the Irish based on available for selection:

15. Warrick Gelant
14. Dillyn Lleyds
13. Jan Serfontein
12. Rohan janse van Rensburg
11. Courtnal Skosan
10. Handre Pollard
9. Ross Cronje

8. Jean-Luc du Preez
7. Siyamthanda Kolisi
6. Francois Louw
5. Lood de Jager
4. Eben Etzebeth (c)
3. Coenie Oosthuizen
2. Malcolm Marx
1. Tendai Mtawarira

16. Bongi Mbonambi
17. Steven Kitshoff
18. Wilco Louw
19. Franco Mostert
20. Pieter-Steph du Toit
21. Rudy Paige
22. Elton Jantjies
23. Jessie Kriel

I am not ready to have Pollard start for the Ireland game. Pollard needs to start on the tour for sure but I would give the IRE game to Elton since it is the biggest match on the tour. It is not Elton's last chance but it is close.

Pollard to start after that regardless and that could therefore disguise if Elton's performance is what benched him or Pollard taking back the reigns. It Elton is motivated and plays great against Ireland then that is the outcome that we want.

With Francois Louw out we should move Kwagga Smith into the squad. I think that he will be great at Test Rugby. While I think that Cassiem was OK in the RC the only thing that I think he has on Smith is age/experience. I think that Cassiem is good but that Smith is just better.

No Coetzee in the squad at all? I think that he deserves to start, especially against IRE, and then Gelant can be the utility back sub. I also think that Nyakane should be the substitute prop and not W. Louw. W. Louw is great but let's bring him into the side slowly.

 

[munstermuffin]

Maybe there is hope for Kwagga after all, him and Cloete are our last two fetchers.

Cloete has come to a better place now

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well Flouw will be available for the Bokke:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/louw-banned-but-free-for-bok-tests-20171019

There were no aggravating factors, however, and as Louw did not have a clean disciplinary record, the committee decided to reduce the sanction by only one week before imposing a suspension of three weeks.



Louw will be free to play on Monday, November 6 which means he will be available for the Springboks' year-end tour to Europe.

The Boks will face Ireland in Dublin (November 11), France in Paris (November 18), Italy in Padova (November 25) and Wales in Cardiff (December 2).

 

[George Ford]

I am not ready to have Pollard start for the Ireland game. Pollard needs to start on the tour for sure but I would give the IRE game to Elton since it is the biggest match on the tour. It is not Elton's last chance but it is close.

Pollard to start after that regardless and that could therefore disguise if Elton's performance is what benched him or Pollard taking back the reigns. It Elton is motivated and plays great against Ireland then that is the outcome that we want.

You're saying if Italy was the 1st test then you would let Pollard start or you just prefer he not start the 1st game on tour? I can't see a reason why Pollard can't start, unless you have news he hasn't recovered from the concussion he sustained or any other injury.

Every test is a final for the Boks going forward. It's pointless to let Elton start against Ireland and then bench him the next if one of the Boks' objective is to build confidence in their processes; continuity in selection being 1 of them. Barring injuries, is AC able to nail down his first XV? I think not confidently.

With Francois Louw out we should move Kwagga Smith into the squad. I think that he will be great at Test Rugby. While I think that Cassiem was OK in the RC the only thing that I think he has on Smith is age/experience. I think that Cassiem is good but that Smith is just better.

No Coetzee in the squad at all? I think that he deserves to start, especially against IRE, and then Gelant can be the utility back sub. I also think that Nyakane should be the substitute prop and not W. Louw. W. Louw is great but let's bring him into the side slowly.

Kwagga Smith has undoubtedly been a standout player the last few seasons, but he is not what national selectors would look to in a flank position. Chris Cloete would get a call-up before him if needed.
I guess it's unfair to be critical of Cassiem's showings after being played relatively out of position, however, the guy has no X-factor. I would rather now opt for JL du Preez to fill the void at 8. The kid has been with the Boks all year and can be regarded as a regular now. I'm sure he has learnt from the bad games we had this year (like PSdT) and although his twin is the regular incumbent at 8 for their union, it would be too much of a ask to start him.

It's disappointing to even admit this Bok backline being average at best. A lot of it can actually be attributed to the way Boks play, being a forward orientated game. Even so, there were enough opportunities across all the games for the backs to launch a counter attack from deep, and in most cases the aerial route was chosen - the safer option being the territorial game. Perhaps with a different fullback (like Gelant) at the back we could see more creativity coming off these situations.

I just think it's no coincidence for the backs blowing cold when the only player entrusted to ignite the play is Elton Jantjies - too much pressure for the lad unfortunately and the prospect of a back 3 consisting of Gelant, Lleyds & Skosan with the bulk of a midfield combo in Pollard, RjvR & Serf, would be certainly more appeasing to the eye at least.

Agreed with Nyakane Louw comment, as long as Dreyer is far from the Bok jersey.