Bok squad 2017

[BPM]

Surely still performing much better than Mohoje? Ah well, quotas to fill I suppose.

I'm sorry to say so, but it does seem as though that could be the case TBH when you consider that Skosan/Rhule have been selected ahead of Combrinck.

With Whiteley and Vermeulen out, who is going to play 8?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'm sorry to say so, but it does seem as though that could be the case TBH when you consider that Skosan/Rhule have been selected ahead of Combrinck.

With Whiteley and Vermeulen out, who is going to play 8?

Slightly surprising that Ackermann's been left out given this. Kriel could do a job there.

 

[Which Tyler]

Delighted to see that Louw has been left out, the June internationals was the first time in about a decade he's had a full 6 weeks off rugby without being injured, this will already it 12! He should be fit and hungry for Bath now.

He's a damned good player, but let's face it, h must be knackered, mentally and physically. An actual summer break and pre-season massively improves his chances of making Japan 19 - though he may well have been overtaken by then anyway.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Unlucky;
Ruan Combrinck - pity he has Bok caps as he could otherwise have played test rugby elsewhere maybe as he really does deserve to be playing at the highest level based on being the best SA winger by some margin
Kwagga Smith / Ruan Ackermann - behind Mohoje, Dan du Preez and Cassiem? A tad controversial if you ask me.
SP Marais - might be bias but Marais has been creating chances and scoring some fine tries rather than just eing at the recieving end of Serfontein brilliance (I'm speaking of Gelant)
Thomas du Toit - best loose head in SR for SA and I am counting Kitshoff's stint for the Stormers. Will we seriously be fielding Mtawarira in 2019?
Lionel Cronje - best 10 in SA in SR 2017. I can understand that not all the selections be based off of SR form mind you and Bosch has the years on Cronje looking ahead but should we really be looking post 2019 at this stage?
Rohan Janse van Rensburg / Harold Vorster - out behind Damian de Allende who hasn't done anything in two years?

Lucky;
Pollard - in here because of past highs. I'm not saying he doesn't have the potensial. Just havn't shown it in two years.
Rhule - a test winger geeting 0 / 5 on defence in a game vs what looked like a mediocre France.. very lucky to keep his spot IMO.
Rudy Paige - wha?
De Allende / Franco Venter - ahead of Vorster and RJvR. I don't see it especially I feel De Allende has been limited in his play and impact. Despite my Stormers bias I just cannot fathom the justification for his inclusion. If you argue that RJvR is just back from injury then you count out De Allende as well IMO.
Mtawarira - again, will he seriously be in teh 23 in 2019?
D du Preez / Mohoje / Cassiem - I suppose if Vermeulen, Whiteley and Coetzee were available it'd be a different story. Lucky nontheless.

What I am hoping for with the squad as is;

1 Kitshoff
2 Marx
3 Malherbe
4 Etzebeth
5 De Jager
6 Kriel
7 Kolisi
8 ... Cassiem maybe?

9 Cronje
10 Jantjies

11 Skosan
12 Serfontein
13 Kriel... because no RJvR or Vorster
14 Lleyds
15 Coetzee

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't know if its just me but I have a feeling that the Boks are on the way back.

The question is on our way back to what? Certainly not ~2007-9 pushing for #1. We were for a good long time clear and away #2. I don't think we'll be that. We'll probably be mixing it up with Aus and Ireland at least. I hope.

I just don't feel the selections, gameplan and continuity is there for us. If we can steady the ship in 2017 and build on that in 2018 that'd hopefully be the start of 'getting back'.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well, the way I look at this squad, is that AC's picks was influenced at what happened up to the Semi-finals.

I can understand the thinking in selecting each and every player he has in the squad. And I think AC tried his best to keep the dogs at bay, with selecting coloured players where he can above non-capped white players.

I'm very happy to see Warwick Gelant & Curwin Bosch getting the call up. They are 2 of the players who consistently performed for their franchise all season.

But I think we should hold off the criticism of the squad and who was left out, just a bit. Remember that this squad will inevitably be altered as the tournament goes on. Guys like Ruan Combrink, Rohan Janse van Rensburg and Maybe even Lionell Cronje can still make the squad as injuries are going to happen.

Just like in the past, this squad is for the first 2 tests of the RC. So it makes sense to have a few new faces in the squad, and have some others get their groove back before we battle the All Blacks.

 

[George Ford]

Springbok Rugby Championship Squad

FORWARDS:
Props: Lizo Gqoboka (1) - Bulls, Steven Kitshoff (3) - Stormers, Frans Malherbe (3) - Stormers, Tendai Mtawarira (1) - Sharks, Trevor Nyakane (1) - Cheetahs, Coenie Oosthuizen (1) - Sharks.
Hookers: Malcolm Marx - Lions, Bongi Mbonambi - Stormers, Chilliboy Ralepelle - Sharks
Locks: Lood De Jager (5) - Bulls, Eben Etzebeth (4) - Stormers, Franco Mostert (5) - Lions
Flanks: Uzair Cassiem (7) - Cheetahs, Jean-Luc Du Preez (7) - Sharks, Siya Kolisi (6) - Stormers, Jaco Kriel (6) - Lions, Oupa Mohoje (7) - Cheetahs,
Eighthman: Daniel Du Preez - Sharks
Utility: Pieter-Steph Du Toit (4/5/7/8) - Stormers

BACKS:
Scrumhalves: Ross Cronje - Lions, Rudy Paige - Bulls
Flyhalves: Elton Jantjies - Lions, Handre Pollard - Bulls
Centres: Damian De Allende (12) - Stormers, Jesse Kriel (13) - Bulls, Jan Serfontein (12) - Bulls, Francois Venter (13) - Cheetahs
Wings: Raymond Rhule (14) - Cheetahs, Courtnall Skosan (11) - Lions
Fullbacks: Andries Coetzee - Lions, Warrick Gelant - Bulls
Utility: Curwin Bosch (10/15) - Sharks, Francois Hougaard (9/11) - Worcester Warriors, Dillyn Leyds (14/15) - Stormers

Comments:
A bit worried at the lack of depth and experience at tighthead. Gqoboka is rewarded for consistent form, but i'm not even sure if he is a TH? Is Malherbe really the only specialist 3 the Boks can call on? Is Nyakane's call-up justifiable on current form? They intend to get Beast up to a 100 caps.
Fairly happy with hookers' selection, barr Chilliboy (how was his form?). Needs to polish on their throw-in skills though.
Etzebeth & Mostert should resume duty in engine room. This combination is what the Bok pack should be built around (even with Lood or PSDT).
Injuries to Whiteley & Vermeulen leaves a void at 8. I would allow the Du Preez twins to share the role, while Jaco, Siya & Oupa rotate positions on the side. PSDT's versatility makes him the first name on the bench on any matchday squad - both blessing and curse, ask Danie Rossouw. Oupa & Cassiem's call-ups perhaps a show of faith from Franco?

These backs can launch and be on fire no doubt, but can they beat the punch when the pressure is on?
In Coetzee we have safe hands and a steady boot and with the likes of Lleyds and Gelant deputizing the Boks have lots of firepower to call on thus variations on their attacks with these guys.
The traditional difference between 11 & 14 is this: 11 is your 1st choice wing. The speedster in the squad, the target runner for all attacks who is a potent finisher and natural instinct for scoring. While 14 should also posses all of the above, he is expected to have more of an all-round game, kind of like a 2nd fullback. Rhule is not a bad player, but the selection of him and Skosan in the same run-on team is questionable. He didn't help his case when he got bumped off and missed a few tackles in the French series. Combrink fits the role at 14 to the tee! (PUN INTENDED)
Happy with the midfield combos on offer, although, admittedly DdA can count himself lucky for effectively being chosen ahead of Vorster, but we know with AC you would have to perform consistently in order to be selected. I'm glad Venter is chosen ahead of Mapoe, it's clear the Cheetahs captain has more to offer.
Halfback pairing should be a no-brainer. Happy with backup options at 10, whom I think Bosch will be deputizing for both Jantjies & Pollard.
The 1st tough call will be the captaincy. Natural to think it would be Etzebeth, with Kolisi & Kriel deputizing those roles.

 

[SomeOke]

We need to beat Aus home and away, and Arg home and away. Anything less and I won't be satisfied, especially with the Aussies struggling at the moment.

There are still a few question marks in the side but quota's are just a reality we are going to have to live with and embrace, it does mean that 3, 9 and wing doesn't really look right but what can you do.

I'd have loved to see Kwagga in the side more than anyone else but his red may have ruined it for him (that and our incumbents from the French tests all played well).
Other than that RJVR and Combrink NEED to be part of this side, they are two of the out and out game-breakers that we have in SA but I suppose you could argue they are coming back from injury.

Surprise surprise I'm still giving DDA chances, RJVR is clearly better but I don't think Voster is, Venter didn't have as good a season as he did last year, and I do think we're looking for a more explosive option at 12 (I like Venter at 13, for his line running and defensive organization).

I worry about the lack of Whiteley in the side, he's one of the most mediocre loose forwards in the bok set-up but it's unbelievable what his presence does do a team in terms of leadership, for me we can't leave him out when fit unless he really dips in form (and he's perfeectly fine).

I was a big proponent of the PsdT and Eben lock pairing, and was quite scathing of Mostert but I take it all back, he's the real deal and a vital cog in our machine, Eben and PsdT perhaps suffer from being too similar and Eben is on better form atm.

Excited for the games, going to grab tickets for Newlands, bring it on.

Edit:

With Whiteley and Vermeulen out, who is going to play 8?

One of our incumbents will have to manage, I think Kolisi, Kriel, and JLDP have all played their but none very often, Kolisi is least likely I'd say.

 

[unrated]

I'm not satisfied by the explanation given by AC on why he left out the lions pair of Combrinck and Rjvr.
He said he decided to reward the players who played well against France. But how did the players get into the Springbok side in the first place? They played well in Super rugby. So now the Springboks play well for three games and he claims to discount Super rugby form in favor of supporting players who did the job in national Colours. So AC is basically saying yes Combrinck played well but Skosan and Rhule played well against France therefore I don't care about the Super rugby form of Combrinck.
That's the one side of it . And at the same time that he makes these claims he goes and includes uncapped players amongs them Bosch and Dan du Preez. Now I have no problem with their inclusion because I think they are good players but doesn't this go against what AC just based his argument upon ? He discounted the form of Combrinck saying he knew he played well but then does not discount the form of these uncapped players included. Why does he not stick with the players who played against France for the positions of Bosch and Dan du Preez for example? it kind of seems as he just preferred not to include the two lions players because he simply does not like them.
He proved his own argument wrong.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

What's the likely starting 23 the Boks will go with???

 

[Big_Grumper]

Why wasn't the Lions loose head picked........Ruan Dreyer?

He played against France in the summer.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

At the end of the day its a squad that ought to keep his employers happy enough, do well enough against Aussie and Arg (we hope) and keep supporters happy enough.

But is it a fair reflection of best available players? Probably not. Will we be competitive against NZ and work towards being the team to beat come 2019? Probably not. That is SA for you. Compromises have to be made in the short term and though in an academic sense I can understand the rationale I almost want to say I know it won't give us the long term benefits; I'd sooner back commitment to excellence and success alongside long term grass roots investment to get us there than affirmative action and pandering.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Why wasn't the Lions loose head picked........Ruan Dreyer?

He played against France in the summer.

He's a tighthead... And yeah, your guess is as good as mine why he wasn't picked. Maybe the quotas had to be filled with Nyakane and Gqoboka both able to play at tighthead.

What's the likely starting 23 the Boks will go with???

hmmm. Good Question. I think it will look like this:

1. Beast Mtawarira
2. Malcolm Marx
3. Trevor Nyakane
4. Eben Etzebeth (captain)
5. Franco Mostert
6. Jaco Kriel
7. Siya Kolisi
8. Jean-Luc Du Preez

9. Ross Cronje
10. Elton Jantjies
11. Courtnal Skosan
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Jesse Kriel
14. Raymond Rhule
15. Andries Coetzee

16. Bongi Mbonambi
17. Stephen Kitshoff
18. Coenie Oosthuizen
19. Pieter-Steph Du Toit
20. Oupa Mohoje
21. Francois Hougaard
22. Curwin Bosch
23. Francois Venter/Warwick Gelant

My guess is that AC will try to pick as many guys as what he used during the French tour, as he's big on consistency and unless some of the guys don't perform too well, new faces will emerge.

At no. 8 It's between the 2 Du Preez brothers, of all the guys in the squad, they are the most accustomed to that position. Unless he wants to start Kolisi and Mohoje together and then play Kriel at 8.

Etzebeth has been confirmed as the captain in Whiteley's absence. And I think Mostert's performances will move him up ahead of PSDT and Lood De Jager.

As for the backline, I can't see too many changes happening. Bosch is one of the guys I think will get a debut, while Pollard is still recovering.

Also, did you guys see the Red jersey the Boks are going to play in against Argentina?? This is to comemorate 25 years of rugby unity in SA:

 

[JohnKA]

I don't know how Luk Am is not in the bok squad , i think he is the best #13 we have in the country and by far a better overall player than DDA

 

[unrated]

hmmm. Good Question. I think it will look like this:

1. Beast Mtawarira
2. Malcolm Marx
3. Trevor Nyakane
4. Eben Etzebeth (captain)
5. Franco Mostert
6. Jaco Kriel
7. Siya Kolisi
8. Jean-Luc Du Preez

9. Ross Cronje
10. Elton Jantjies
11. Courtnal Skosan
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Jesse Kriel
14. Raymond Rhule
15. Andries Coetzee

16. Bongi Mbonambi
17. Stephen Kitshoff
18. Coenie Oosthuizen
19. Pieter-Steph Du Toit
20. Oupa Mohoje
21. Francois Hougaard
22. Curwin Bosch
23. Francois Venter/Warwick Gelant

My guess is that AC will try to pick as many guys as what he used during the French tour, as he's big on consistency and unless some of the guys don't perform too well, new faces will emerge.

Yes I agree. AC will claim consistency influenced his decision making. That's the probable starting team with maybe the exception of Mtawarira. I read he is still nursing a neck injury. So probably Kitshoff to start.

My preferred team would look different. Yes the team AC selected did well against France but France is not on the same level currently as our SANZAAR partners and therefore I feel we should change the lineup to accommodate as much as possible of our best players. Make them play together to form new combinations.

Preferred xv
15- J.Kriel (Bulls)
14- R.Combrinck (Lions)
13- F.Venter (Cheetahs)
12- J.Serfontein (Bulls ? French club )
11- W.Gelant (Bulls)
10. E.Jantjies (no other options yet) (Lions)
9- C. Reinach (Sharks) / F.de Klerk (Lions)
8- D.du Preez (Sharks)
7- J.du Preez (Sharks)
6- S.Kolisi (Stormers)
5- P. du Toit. (Stormers)
4- E. Etzebeth (Stormers)
3- C.Oosthuizen. (Sharks)
2- M.Marx. (Lions)
1- S.Kitshoff (Stormers)

I might have mixed up the props.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I don't know how Luk Am is not in the bok squad , i think he is the best #13 we have in the country and by far a better overall player than DDA

I wouldn't say he's the best, or that he's better than DDA. There's very few players in say that can bust a tackle like DDA can when he's on form. Mapoe and Kriel has been in very good form recently and Kriel was our top try scorer against France, so he's IMO high up on the pecking order, whereas Am, who is mostly a specialist 13, doesn't deliver as much variety as the others can.

He'll get his chance though...

 

[The Jones Boy]

...is that Dave Grohl in the red shirt?

 

[Icemn]

This is to comemorate 25 years of rugby unity in SA:

please.... what unity?

that yellow jersey looks like the hurricanes home jersey, blue one looks like the blues...

 

[George Ford]

...Also, did you guys see the Red jersey the Boks are going to play in against Argentina?? This is to comemorate 25 years of rugby unity in SA:

I'm with Jake on this one, or is it Jakobus?
https://www.alloutrugby.com/red-jersey-sellout-jake/

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

please.... what unity?

that yellow jersey looks like the hurricanes home jersey, blue one looks like the blues...

You want all South Africans should unite behind the Hurricanes and NZ national team?