Bakkies Botha Retires

[Big Ewis]

stormer no need to apologize, we're discussing, unlike Bakkies you haven't done any wrong
But the old notion you can continually perpetuate your negative actions and then just atone for it by asking forgiveness every day, like it's some sort of compromise and you can clear your record every day like nothing, deliberately do wrong every single time ten a clean sheet as you merely say sorry... that way is just wrong. I punched you woops sorry...oh I punched you again, woops sorry. Again, oh really sorry...no problem, keep on doing that ad infinitum.
To ask forgiveness for the wrong you do, that is for the things you do as a weak human being, unknowingly often, that for your imperfection you're probably committing wrong unto others but are striving to really prevent that from happening. He's hasn't ever stopped or thought about it all that much, and then you see him praying on TV, well on display, like he couldn't do it discretely in the locker room by himself away from his peers' eyes; and then he reiterates he's religious and all...not good.

So that much is reprehensible certainly. Then, whether he's actually a good man in other fields of his life, I'm not judging that. That's his life, I'm not particularly interested in fact.
Anyways..

 

[McTallshort]

He was hated and feared by so many opposing players, because his style of play was brutal, hard and uncompromising, true characteristics of Springbok rugby.

Until be came up against someone his own size or someone who wasnt prepared to take his crap. He was a great player but he was also a playground bully and a cheap shot merchent the kind of player that ends other careers and think it makes him tough.

 

[ENZED-88]

Until be came up against someone his own size or someone who wasnt prepared to take his crap. He was a great player but he was also a playground bully and a cheap shot merchent the kind of player that ends other careers and think it makes him tough.

Exactly right,only had eyes for the smallest bloke on the field, always waited for him to have a run in with someone like Jerry Collins but he knew who to keep away from. His dirty play takes a bit away from the word class player he is/was.

 

[munstermuffin]

Until be came up against someone his own size or someone who wasnt prepared to take his crap. He was a great player but he was also a playground bully and a cheap shot merchent the kind of player that ends other careers and think it makes him tough.

A pure neutral here but some of greatest locks were like that. Martin Johnson was very similar and in my eyes was very effective with it. I'd say it's just being driven and willing to do whatever to win.

 

[McTallshort]

A pure neutral here but some of greatest locks were like that. Martin Johnson was very similar and in my eyes was very effective with it. I'd say it's just being driven and willing to do whatever to win.

Johnson wasnt a cheap shot merchent and he wasnt afraid to take on someone his own size.

 

[sharkfan]

Johnson wasnt a cheap shot merchent and he wasnt afraid to take on someone his own size.

Yes Bakkies had a sadistic streak in him, but there were also other players that weren't squeeky clean. Unfortunately for him, he was targeted by referees due to his reputation for dirty play and sometimes unfairly penalised, for example cleaning out Adam Jones at ruck time during the Boks v Lions test, causing Jones to sit with a dislocated shoulder. Even Jones admitted afterwards that it was legal. Also he was targeted/challenged by many opponents on the field, hoping he would lose his cool and leak a penalty. The media hyping him up as this bully didn't help things either.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Johnson wasnt a cheap shot merchent and he wasnt afraid to take on someone his own size.

Aye,
There's a big difference between someone willing to scrap at any moment and soeone willing to headbutt a prone player in the back of the head, on the floor.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Until be came up against someone his own size or someone who wasnt prepared to take his crap. He was a great player but he was also a playground bully and a cheap shot merchent the kind of player that ends other careers and think it makes him tough.

I don't think Brendan Cannon and Adam Jones was that much smaller than him though... And those 2 incidents were the ones he got the most flak for.

Either way, While the rest of the world might hate him, us saffas love the big guy. You can see it on twitter and on facebook.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Until be came up against someone his own size or someone who wasnt prepared to take his crap. He was a great player but he was also a playground bully and a cheap shot merchent the kind of player that ends other careers and think it makes him tough.

really find that hard to believe while we had Gorgodze at Montpellier twice a year they both went hammer and nails at each other and neither the small one on the park, this ended with Bakkies blowing a kiss and Mamuka using a false gun with his hand there was a 30 second pause and then they carried on as usual until the ref carded them both. Bakkies was a very hard player who did play more or less within the bounderies. so did Johnstone, Cudmore, and a few others, give the guy a break i've met him and he is a very good person ok things a little different on the park to normal every day, but this flakk is a little harsh, the guy has won more or less everything to be won and he did not do that by throwing endless cheap shots.

 

[nickdnz]

I don't think Brendan Cannon and Adam Jones was that much smaller than him though... And those 2 incidents were the ones he got the most flak for.

Either way, While the rest of the world might hate him, us saffas love the big guy. You can see it on twitter and on facebook.

But his shots on Adam Jones and Brendan Cannon were both while they weren't in positions to defend themselves..

 

[TRF_heineken]

But his shots on Adam Jones and Brendan Cannon were both while they weren't in positions to defend themselves..

Yet Adam Jones came out and defended Bakkies's challenge on him, saying there was nothing wrong with it...

 

[nickdnz]

Right, so it wasn't a cheap shot then I guess. Therefore Bakkies doesn't pick on people his own size.

But to be honest there was something wrong with it, he flew into the breakdown and dived so he couldn't support his weight (off his feet), into another player's shoulder. I don't care what Adam Jones says - as I can see the replay and it's reckless play.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Right, so it wasn't a cheap shot then I guess. Therefore Bakkies doesn't pick on people his own size.

But to be honest there was something wrong with it, he flew into the breakdown and dived so he couldn't support his weight (off his feet), into another player's shoulder. I don't care what Adam Jones says - as I can see the replay and it's reckless play.

semantics.

Some would see it as reckless, some won't. A lot saw it not as a reckless challenge, especially in SA, hence the justice4Bakkies campaign was launched.

But this is an example of his style of play, and how it has absolutely nothing to do with his faith.

 

[munstermuffin]

Johnson wasnt a cheap shot merchent and he wasnt afraid to take on someone his own size.

Well I've seen him take a few cheap shots and be disrespectful but as I said it was in the battle. I'm sure Bakkies Botha wasn't always after the small guys.
But my comment regards Johnson wasn't in that regard more he was ruthless and driven to win

 

[Jaguares]

The question is:

Who will carry the legacy as the thug #1 at international level?

Eben Etzebeth? Pascal Pape? Courtney Lawes?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The question is:

Who will carry the legacy as the thug #1 at international level?

Eben Etzebeth? Pascal Pape? Courtney Lawes?

That's a pretty good question, Conrad. I don't think Etzebeth is a thug though. He has a temper (which he manages to control better now it seems) but he doesn't start things IMO. Schalk Burger is still active and has always been a favorite to hate amongst TRF users? My vote goes to Hartley though.

 

[Mikel92]

Was just about to say Hartley was knocking on the door for that legacy a long time ago.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That's a pretty good question, Conrad. I don't think Etzebeth is a thug though. He has a temper (which he manages to control better now it seems) but he doesn't start things IMO. Schalk Burger is still active and has always been a favorite to hate amongst TRF users? My vote goes to Hartley though.

I love Burger! Since trying to blind Fitzgerald he's changed significantly and always comes across as a really decent man to me, especially in interviews.

And yeah, Hartley is worse than Bakkies in my opinion, he regularly loses his side games. Liam Williams was in with a shout a while ago but he's got himself under control seemingly.

 

[McTallshort]

Was just about to say Hartley was knocking on the door for that legacy a long time ago.

Agreed Hartley is a pratt

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think it'll be Hartley, he's not really done anything (minus swear at a ref) in years (tugging someone's shirt is not at the same level as headbutting someone). He was definitely well on his way there though, with his gouging and biting.
Don't think Lawes is a cheapshot guy either - he puts in a few late hits but nothing major, just the way he plays: chasing down halfbacks.

If you're looking for an English guy then it's got to be Clarke - he purposefully broke the arm of a player trapped under a ruck. Doesn't come much worse.