Backline Dilemma for Gatland in the British Lions Team

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

You're severely underrating him here (overrating Maitland and Daly too) and have completely disregarded his aerial, passing and kicking play as well as his attacking intelligence which he's in the top two of any of the wings named and up there amongst the 15's too. He'll play the rest of the season at 15 and if Gatland brings three 15's again they should be 3 of Hogg, Williams, Halfpenny and Zebo unless Payne plays there which he won't. He's also a proven finisher, scoring every 3.75 games in Ireland sides that rarely scored out wide and he averages a try every other game for Munster too.

He wouldn't be in my squad because his defence and maturity need to improve but he's certainly a contender.

He does have a very good passing and kicking game, but those aren't the 2 qualities I look for in a winger, which why I said I don't think he's an out and out finisher and wouldn't consider him as a real wing contender. As for his aerial ability, I don't think it's anything particularly special. He certainly has his moments, but he can be exploited there, like in Watson's try vs Ireland in the RWC Warm Up game. It is probably just the Englishman in me but I rate Daly more than him and personally I'd take Maitland over him at FB in a heart beat. As you said, Zebo's defence is a worry.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

On. A separate note, George North will surely tour, but is he deserving of a spot. He's finished a few good tries but hasn't really found his feet, had so many issues with concussion and is suspect in defence which will surely be found out by the likes of Milner skudder and savea .

Thoughts?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

And thats my point. In my eyes he's a natural finisher and has a record to back it up. He's Munsters record try scorer and 1 of best try/games ratio going. But that's my point on we will see different things.
On Byrne I think even Alpha, his biggest fan, will admit Byrne is nowhere near Zebo now. May pissibly be sooner rather than later as will Sweetnam but both will rightfully be nowhere near Lions.
FWIW I'd have Zebo ahead of alot on your list for wing and at 15 too. I don't think Maitland or Seymour will be near Lions tour

Byrne is no O'Loughlin bro!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

On North - His best form is so much better than any of the other wingers can offer, you can't risk not at least touring him. I don't think many/any of the other players available to us would've finished off that try in Rome. He's just such a physical specimen that he can't be left out.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

He does have a very good passing and kicking game, but those aren't the 2 qualities I look for in a winger, which why I said I don't think he's an out and out finisher and wouldn't consider him as a real wing contender. As for his aerial ability, I don't think it's anything particularly special. He certainly has his moments, but he can be exploited there, like in Watson's try vs Ireland in the RWC Warm Up game. It is probably just the Englishman in me but I rate Daly more than him and personally I'd take Maitland over him at FB in a heart beat. As you said, Zebo's defence is a worry.

You're going back there now! He's been a demon in the air this season, hasn't got the chance to show it in the 6n because Murray's box kicking has been poor and the Scots exclusively kicked down Earls' wing but in the AI's and for Munster he's been class offensively and defensively in the air. I don't think Maitland in in the same league at 15 and, based on what I've seen on the wing and 13, I don't see how Daly could be better, not that that's a great science.

I think Daly's Lions chances are taking a hit because he can't get game time at 13 (his best position imo), no one is throwing their hands up after JJ and with North, Williams, Nowell and Watson and potentially Zebo, Trimble, Seymour and Maitland likely to be preferred on the wing it could keep a quality player out.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

You're going back there now! He's been a demon in the air this season, hasn't got the chance to show it in the 6n because Murray's box kicking has been poor and the Scots exclusively kicked down Earls' wing but in the AI's and for Munster he's been class offensively and defensively in the air. I don't think Maitland in in the same league at 15 and, based on what I've seen on the wing and 13, I don't see how Daly could be better, not that that's a great science.

I think Daly's Lions chances are taking a hit because he can't get game time at 13 (his best position imo), no one is throwing their hands up after JJ and with North, Williams, Nowell and Watson and potentially Zebo, Trimble, Seymour and Maitland likely to be preferred on the wing it could keep a quality player out.

At the same time his ability to play wing, 15 and centre could make him a good utility option. I doubt he'll tour unless he becomes the top try scorer this 6n and makes zero mistakes.

 

[munstermuffin]

Byrne is no O'Loughlin bro!

No but I'm sure we are both in agreement the 2 of them and Sweetnam will be serious options after wett8ng their toes in international scene this summer all going well.
I genuinely think Sweetnam can become the best winger in the world aerially. And what I like about the 3 young guns coming up is they are all totally different.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No but I'm sure we are both in agreement the 2 of them and Sweetnam will be serious options after wett8ng their toes in international scene this summer all going well.
I genuinely think Sweetnam can become the best winger in the world aerially. And what I like about the 3 young guns coming up is they are all totally different.

Yeah, I was just joking around because I don't talk Byrne up all that much! My only issue with Sweetnam is that I think he might be too ugly to be an international Back 3, they're usually outrageously handsome men... Sweetnam doesn't even come close to Liam Williams!

 

[munstermuffin]

Yeah, I was just joking around because I don't talk Byrne up all that much! My only issue with Sweetnam is that I think he might be too ugly to be an international Back 3, they're usually outrageously handsome men... Sweetnam doesn't even come close to Liam Williams!

Well he was buried away in GAA fields so we couldn't have it all perfect. We don't need models on wing

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Is this the de facto lions thread now?
Just read about how loads of ex lions captains are getting behind Alun-Wyn as captain.
Hell of a player I agree, but Gatland would have to be a bloody sure before doing this that he's the first lock on the team sheet, otherwise this would be a mistake And I don't think you can be that confident right now.

 

[TheSaffycen]

With back three players, how many normally go? About 6? You'd probably look at Daly because he's a utility player. Then Hogg is nailed, Halfpenny is, Williams is possible, North more than likely. Zebo I think is a great player but I really rate Seymour, he's also an animal in the air but he seems like a better finisher. Zebo would probably be in my list to go, but then Watson, May and Nowell are all possibilities.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is this the de facto lions thread now?
Just read about how loads of ex lions captains are getting behind Alun-Wyn as captain.
Hell of a player I agree, but Gatland would have to be a bloody sure before doing this that he's the first lock on the team sheet, otherwise this would be a mistake And I don't think you can be that confident right now.

I think so, although its actually a British Lions thread, any Irish player named so far apart from Henderson and Best have been off topic!

 

[munstermuffin]

I think so, although its actually a British Lions thread, any Irish player named so far apart from Henderson and Best have been off topic!

Well spotted. It like that time British woman Katie Taylor won a medal as well as those British boxers Paddy Barnes and Michael Conlon

 

[martinspoonboy1]

I think so, although its actually a British Lions thread, any Irish player named so far apart from Henderson and Best have been off topic!

To be fair, this thread is about the back line dilemma and other than sexton and Murray who are nailed on so don't require much debate, there is only really henshaw (who again is most likely to go) and maybe Zebo to discuss. None of the others get close for me. Ringtone as a wildcard maybe?

 

[martinspoonboy1]

That was meant to say ringrose! Well there's his new nickname sorted!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think so, although its actually a British Lions thread, any Irish player named so far apart from Henderson and Best have been off topic!

Hadn't thought about that, you make a good point. I've always thought though that it undermines the implicit sense of unity to have to state that the Irish are also coming. Maybe you guys just give it a miss this yeah, eh?

@TheSaffycen I think last time there were 7 originals with 3 called up as injury cover. Just looked and in 2009 it was 7 as well

2013:
Kearney
Hogg
Halfpenny
Cuthbert
Bowe
Maitland
North

2009:
Kearney
Byrne
Williams
Monye
Halfpenny
Bowe
Fitzgerald

Right now the only absolute certainties for this years tour are Liam Williams and Stuart Hogg unless they either fall over or somehow discover the most terrible form of their careers. George North is very unlikely to be left out; his form doesn't seem to ever matter much, he can just coast. Halfpenny looks likely over Kearney. That would be 4 (3 of whom Welsh). You then need at least two specialist wingers. Watson (form allowing) and Zebo? I think Daly will have to try and prove his value as a centre. This all changes if Halfpenny doesn't go, which by the way I don't think he should.

In terms of overall quality looking at those lists, 2013 wasn't an obvious improvement over 2009, with Fitzgerald and Williams better than the likes of Maitland and Cuthbert. In 2017 we have the best options but too many tight calls. there's just a much greater quantity of hopefuls pretty much everywhere.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Right now I'd go for:

Hogg
Halfpenny
Brown
Liam Williams
Watson
North
Nowell

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Hadn't thought about that, you make a good point. I've always thought though that it undermines the implicit sense of unity to have to state that the Irish are also coming. Maybe you guys just give it a miss this yeah, eh?

I'd love that, Johnny doesn't need to win another tour in the SH and be rewarded with a trip to Downing Street, let the boys rest!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Right now I'd go for:

Hogg
Halfpenny
Brown
Liam Williams
Watson
North
Nowell

Brown!? There's just no way.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Brown!? There's just no way.

Historically, three FBs go. So Hogg, Halfpenny and one of Brown, Zebo, Payne I guess if fit. Kearney is crocked. I'd say Brown is third in line.

They talk about having winning personalities within the wider squad. Don't think there's anyone more competitve. Reckon he'll be picked as a result.

Let me know if I've missed anyone.