Backing the All blacks & dismissing the Boks a bit early?

[Black Heart]

We saw on saturday, how successful south africa were at gaining ground and momentum on turnovers & interceptions, Jacque Fourie was king in the interception department & Brussow at the break down. Alright there were some big names missing for the Blacks. But they're scared to get the same treatment again, you need to play the rugby in the opposing half, you dont want to lose the ball playing expansive passes & running the ball, not only are they scared of losing the ball, but the due on the ball will make it alot harder for the players to grip it, with it being a late night fixture, due comes into account. South Africa play the kick and chase type of rugby, squeezing the opponent into penaltys and repeating, it may not be the most attractive rugby, but it's proven world cup winning rugby.

I highly doubt the All Blacks are scared the Boks will play the same style of rugby because it's more or less expected (when and if these 2 sides meet again) and if anything it will play right into the All Blacks' hands. You forget that the All Blacks played all the rugby in that game which was always their intent (ok, so it doesn't matter because they lost anyway) but that's not the point.
To say that the Boks' gameplan will be highly effective against the All Blacks because it more or less worked in Port Elizabeth is a bit far fetched (I'm not necessarily saying you will be wrong but hold your horses for a second)
Firstly, I think some people are reading far too much into that game with regards to the gameplans of both sides. You might as well be compairing the Wellington test where a fully packed All Blacks side playing at home thumped an understrength Boks' who were trying to (suprise suprise) use a very similar gameplan to that which was employed last week. As you say, there were some big names missing from the All Blacks in that game and it was that lack of experience and cool heads that lost them the game. Even with the inexperience, or should I say 'untried' combinations, the ABs still managed to punch holes in the Boks' defence whilst their own defence was never tested. A similar point can be made about the breakdown arena. The ABs were missing the best openside flanker and arguably the best technical number 8 in the world; and 2 other of their their top fowards. Don't get me wrong, South Africa did very well here but again, last week's test really didn't show us all that much in the same way that the Wellington test didn't.

And just a note about drop goals. If the All Blacks had intended to win the game on drop goals then they played enough territory in that game to kick about 10. Dan Carter I'm sure won't have any problem nailing them if the All Blacks decide to roll out that card.

In short, we won't know for sure who's game is more superior until both sides roll out their 1st string sides against each other.

 

[Icemn]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, recently registered and what not, but i thought i'd put my points forward as to why i think the All Blacks will again Faulter, and either France, England or South Africa will win.

Firstly, lets move straight past the group stages, i don't have any reasons to put forward, why the likes of NZ/Australia/SA/France etc will qualify for the Knock out stages, but i think this is where the problems will start for New Zealand & to some extent Australia. Both of the teams i've listed here like to play expansive, free flowing rugby, Something that i dont thin suits the Knockout stages of a tournament.

Wait a minute don't move past the group stages yet... you have 1 problem...erm in fact you have 3 problems, Samoa, wales and Fiji... i don't see South Africa beating 1 of these teams...Why are you so concerned about the Ab anyways... the Boks have got way bigger issues than the AB.... they play that way because the goal in rugby is to get a try...no wait it is to win...but for SA its a win at any cost, they don't care how they win...that is not AB rugby....i actually think the AB have a better chance in this WC because other then Previous WC the groups the Ab were in was a bit too easy, no real challenge for them... they were able to put on huge scores and they got relaxed... you cant really blame them.... cuz you can't really notice it untill you get a real challenge....and i'm specifically referring to France of this year.... they will be the reason why the AB will be on their toes, and don't come tell me the French are the AB nemesis, go look at the Head to heads of these 2, just cuz France beat them in 2 WC is a small piece in comparison, those 2 losses to France were both in the NH, and 1 in France itself... Sa have also got a tough group but with their game play and the physically of Samoa and walles, i don't see you going past your group.

Losing the ball on a turnover or interception.
We saw on saturday, how successful south africa were at gaining ground and momentum on turnovers & interceptions, Jacque Fourie was king in the interception department & Brussow at the break down. Alright there were some big names missing for the Blacks. But they're scared to get the same treatment again, you need to play the rugby in the opposing half, you dont want to lose the ball playing expansive passes & running the ball, not only are they scared of losing the ball, but the due on the ball will make it alot harder for the players to grip it, with it being a late night fixture, due comes into account. South Africa play the kick and chase type of rugby, squeezing the opponent into penaltys and repeating, it may not be the most attractive rugby, but it's proven world cup winning rugby.

The boks are experts at interceptions, they have to be, how else will they score tries??? Banana, JDV etc all intercept cuz of flat/rush defence and disrupting play. Why is it that when our A-team beat your B-Team 3 weeks ago, nobody said anything, not Ab fans or Boks fans, cuz we know it was your B-team, why still bother?? We all knew you gonna be moered!!! BUT when your A-team beat our misfiring/returning from injury/new combination B-team, all the SA fans are like "WELA, we leker beat you" lmk don't you guys know what is going on??? You don't even notice it was an ugly win by you guys... you don't notice if was more a game the AB lost then a game you won... 24 line breaks by the AB... you didn't create 1 chance????
Well the AB are from NZ... i'm sure they grew up there and have been playing in that weather for years...year in year out??? Yes is proves you kill the game, you are world champs cuz of that style, but can offer nothing afterwards??? What is the point??? Nobody respect the Boks, nobody fear you...

Place kickers.
In Daniel Carter & Morne Steyn, we arguably the two most accurate place kickers. now i'd give this a 50/50 battle, with carter easily taking the flare factor, but then there is Frans steyn that can kick a drop goal from mars, and find touch from his back door in France, another point i find will help the bocks win the terretory battle, or even pat lambie, his kicking game seems to be 100% better after his last few games for the boks.

Don't even try and compare carter with Steyn..that is like referring to Xaxi of Barcelona to Carrick of Man Utd....Morne is like naas botha, can only kick for posts, that is it..nothing else, you should actually only bring him up if he needs to kick and take him off again...is that the only thing you see about carter?? His flair??? ai...If I was SA coach, i'd play lambie without even thinking twice... steyn wont even see the team..

I just feel that the Northern Hemesphier teams have an advantage over the south, because of their style of play, and the due factor is going to suit them more, being from the wetter isles. I think that it will again be a SA/Eng final, with SA taking their fourth crown. World cups are to big a factor for teams to want to play expansive rugby, it's not an AI or a Tri nations game, but the biggest stage of them all.

Yip you right, the Whole Ab team lived in the Australian dry outback for the past 30 years... they just go to NZ to play their home games, they not use to the wet climate of NZ. The Ab have actually surprised me over the last year. They have always been, you can score a try...we will score 2.. but they are actually very good on defence these days.... and a WC is won on defence NOT attack... that is Why SA have got 2 World cups... because that is what you do... park the bus on defence and kick for goal... who need tries right??? I have seen how physical Mccaw and co up front are... something i was not use to in the past.... so the AB defend very good these days and have a deadly attack.... very good balance don't you think??? The yhave also worked on their set playes lineouts/scrums/mauls and build from there. SA on the other hand, only your forwards offer somthing of a threat... they maul at every line out... if you stop that.. they have nothing else, you play them at the forwards, if you disrupt their scrum, they offer nothing, same with lineouts etc... but now you will probable tell me but you can say that about any team even the AB... which is true to an extend... our backline can still make up for it IF they manage to get ball... your backline hardly get ball in anycase...so don't point your finger cuz 3 fingers point back....

 

[profitius]

I've backed France, the Boks and Ireland a few weeks ago. 3 teams who are not in great form so they can be backed at a higher price. I need them to win a few big matches so I can start hedging.

 

[Thingimubob]

Sorry to be picky Icemn neither of the French WC victories vs the All Blacks were in France - '99 was in Twickenham and '07 was in Cardiff. agree with you anyway, gotta say that Bok fans are feeling very overconfident, especially after a poor Tri-Nations. They're gonna have to face a very fit and physical Welsh side who seem to have a bit more confidence in themselves for once, a Samoa side that after beating the Wallabies is chomping at the bit for some more tier 1 scalps and a Fiji side who're bleedin' unpredictable and have proved they can cause a few WC upsets themselves! That group is not easy for any side involved in it so imo not one of them can go into it feeling over-confident and thinking ahead to the knockout games.

 

[Icemn]

Sorry to be picky Icemn neither of the French WC victories vs the All Blacks were in France - '99 was in Twickenham and '07 was in Cardiff.

oops....

 

[TRF_heineken]

@ Icemn

We had England, Fiji and Samoa and Tonga in the previous World Cup. After the WC everyone said that because the boks had 3 very tough group and QF games against these teams it helped them more than the other teams.

with 16 Previous World Cup Winners in the mix again, and with the Assistance of Rassie erasmus and the defence coach of the Stormers now also in the mix... i think we will be just fine.

what every non-All Black supporter must do when they arrive in New Zealand is just keep on talking about Choking, inevitably it will get the AB's more conscious about it and then they will choke.

Just like what happened to the Proteas in this year's Cricket World Cup.

 

[BladeMode]

@ Icemn

You're a bit of a confused puppy being from SA and supporting all but the Sprinboks. Your post will go down well in the games forum.

The point being made by Die Bokke is that the World Cup is a total different kettle of fish from even the Tri Nations. It's like any World Cup sport. The stakes are the ultimate ***le and winning at all cost to be able to have the Crown of the best. Pretty rugby is for all other events. It's not for the WC (regardless of how much I would love it to be). And this, is where SA and England has the edge.

This is to me what NZ has not figured out yet.

 

[Die Bokke]

so don’t point your finger cuz 3 fingers point back....

That was the only thing i took out of your Huge post, that had nothing, at all to do with what i was saying, your entire post was YOU pointing YOUR finger at how the boks are worst team in world rugby effectively. I said that the teams listed, have the best game play for a world cup, NZ can play the most beautiful rugby in the world, but it means Sweet FA when it comes to it doesnt it. in 6 attempts, (i'd say you, but you're from SA supporting the AB's..?) The AB's have one ONE ***le, the very first, compared to a team, that are completely useless with the likes of Naas Botha, Morne Steyn Et el two out of Four. If you're going to Rip my post to shreds, Atleast make it relevant to what i was saying, dont tell me what i mean.

I stand by my predictions, i still think the AB's will again CHOKE and it will be left to SA/England/France to fight it out for the crown.

Another bone to chew on, has anyones opinion changed with todays Tri nations result between Australia & New Zealand? i never saw the game, but i'm told the Walabies looked good.

 

[Ostrayian]

Another bone to chew on, has anyones opinion changed with todays Tri nations result between Australia & New Zealand? i never saw the game, but i'm told the Walabies looked good.

The challenge for OZ is to maintain the intensity from the first half for the full 80 minutes and also enter that mindset and attitude with every game they play and not just against NZ. My fear is that thw Wallabies camp and the supporters will be lulled into thinking we're world beaters after beating the AB's and will expect the same thing to happen against other lesser teams without actually applying the same effort which is dangerous as our loss to Samoa showed.
Also I think it can be dangerous if australia and new zealand only start planning their campaigns on how to beat each other......and forgetting teams like France and england. of all the teams I fear meeting along the way to the final would be england. england has the gameplan and the players to beat oz consistently.

 

[BladeMode]

It was a amazing game. Australia looked awesome. Interesting thing was the first 20 minutes of the second half. The AB game in with a total different game plan. Effectively the Springbok type rugby gameplan. They totally held onto the ball and just kept on driving up. Ugly but highly effective rugby (World Cup type rugby). They strung 27 phases together and then started scoring tries. When they got to 20 all, they suddenly opened up the game again and gave the Wallabies a window of opportunity and they just put their foot on the throttle and cleaned up the game. If the AB's stuck to that game plan, they would have won the game.

Great game by 2 awesome teams. Cannot understand why the AB fans are now up in arms about the loss and why there is panic in the ranks

 

[Black Heart]

It was a amazing game. Australia looked awesome. Interesting thing was the first 20 minutes of the second half. The AB game in with a total different game plan. Effectively the Springbok type rugby gameplan. They totally held onto the ball and just kept on driving up. Ugly but highly effective rugby (World Cup type rugby). They strung 27 phases together and then started scoring tries. When they got to 20 all, they suddenly opened up the game again and gave the Wallabies a window of opportunity and they just put their foot on the throttle and cleaned up the game. If the AB's stuck to that game plan, they would have won the game.

Great game by 2 awesome teams. Cannot understand why the AB fans are now up in arms about the loss and why there is panic in the ranks

Who's panicking? Everyone I've talked to seems to think the loss was a good thing.

 

[Shaggy]

Who's panicking? Everyone I've talked to seems to think the loss was a good thing.

Yes, i'm a bit removed from the rest of what the All Black fans think, being here in Canada, but i'd imagine, that like me, they'd be more concerned about the injuries, than the loss

 

[SavageLez]

I think that NZ can take some positives from the game. They tried playing their ususal running style in the first half and came out second best. In the second half they played South African, forward based styled rugby setting up phases. It was a little boring but they clawed their way back into the match. NZ went back to their old ways near the death of the match and paid for it as the Ozzies grabbed the opportunity.

NZ have proved that they can alternate their game plan and should learn from this contest.

 

[Amobokoboko]

It was a good game and in the first half NZ defend just sloppy. Better team took it altho the come back in the second half was deserved.

 

[Darwin]

Yes, i'm a bit removed from the rest of what the All Black fans think, being here in Canada, but i'd imagine, that like me, they'd be more concerned about the injuries, than the loss

Exactly the same mood here. I don't think I've ever seen people so calm about an AB's loss! People are panicking a bit about the injury to Read.

 

[Jeff Donovan]

Nowdays the game seem to be about phase play and kicking. Rugby is a running game, look at the greatest try ever by Gareth Edwards for the Baa Bas against New Zealand, Barry John etc. Now it's all about phase play and kicks.
Don't write of the welsh

 

[Black Heart]

Nowdays the game seem to be about phase play and kicking. Rugby is a running game, look at the greatest try ever by Gareth Edwards for the Baa Bas against New Zealand, Barry John etc. Now it's all about phase play and kicks.
Don't write of the welsh

As proven as the Welsh might be at home they're always stepping into another dimension when they come to New Zealand.

 

[markshaw]

Nowdays the game seem to be about phase play and kicking. Rugby is a running game, look at the greatest try ever by Gareth Edwards for the Baa Bas against New Zealand, Barry John etc. Now it's all about phase play and kicks.
Don't write of the welsh

Good on you for being passionate though.

 

[no-1-rugby-fan]

South Africa are a dangerous team and have to be treated with caution, remember they got to the World Cup Final last time around. New Zealand have a reputation for slipping up when it comes to the World Cup and they have certainly had a little hiccup in the tri nations recently!

 

[Jer1cho]

I'm still backing Australia, as they will only meet either SA or NZ in a final, unless they somehow manage to lose to Ireland, which I highly doubt. Neither England or France are good enough to beat Australia at the moment. The only question is going to be who they face in the final. Either South Africa, or New Zealand. I think both SA and NZ will reach the semi-finals, but who will come out on top in that game is anybody's guess.

If New Zealand get really rattled by a team in the first 40 of a knockout game, one thing alone is going to go through their minds. "Oh ****, it's really happening again isn't it?". If they can keep their composure, and not go awol like they did against France in 07, then they might have a shot.

As it stands though, I will back what I have said since the roster was announced, and that's that Australia will win the World Cup this year.