Aviva Premiership 16/17 - Round 1

[Raggs]

I don't agree, individual Exeter players looked noticeably tired going into contact and there was too much walking going on, that's got nothing to do with the players in front of them.

Surely it does? If Wasps were pushing the pace, and hitting hard in defence, that's going to take puff out of the chiefs. How else were they supposed to be getting tired if not due to the pace of the game?

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Wouldn't think the benches were that different given the quality Exeter had on their bench.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Makes me think Chiefs are just fine on the fitness stakes, and it's Wasps who're very fit. Which would also fit with what I've been told.

That's a very Wasps thinking POV.

Exeter players as said looked noticeably tired.

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Surely it does? If Wasps were pushing the pace, and hitting hard in defence, that's going to take puff out of the chiefs. How else were they supposed to be getting tired if not due to the pace of the game?

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Wouldn't think the benches were that different given the quality Exeter had on their bench.

No but if the Exeter players where fitter it wouldn't have mattered.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

That will come in time, so I'd hate to see Steenson immediately come back in at 10. Slade has a massive ceiling, but if he keeps getting played at 13 he'll never reach it.

I think in the forwards something needs to be done about who starts and who's on bench. We have giants like Williams, Lees and Waldrom starting while fitter and more reliable players like Hepburn, Parling and Dennis are on the bench.

For the next game I'd like to see:
1. Hepburn
2. LCD
3. Holmes
4. Dennis
5. Parling
6. Ewers
7. Salvi
8. Armand

16. Yeandle
17. Moon
18. Francis
19. Lees
20. Waldrom

That way you've got reliability and fitness starting with impact off the bench. Looks much better rounded to me.

 

[Raggs]

That's a very Wasps thinking POV.

Exeter players as said looked noticeably tired.

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No but if the Exeter players where fitter it wouldn't have mattered.

One team is almost certain to be fitter... and as I said, I've heard that Wasps have been really pushed in pre-season. Considering we were the fittest last season (albeit chiefs were close), I don't think it's necessarily that surprising that we're still fitter?

I do think the benches made the difference, was surprised that Chiefs didn't have more of an impact.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Surely it does? If Wasps were pushing the pace, and hitting hard in defence, that's going to take puff out of the chiefs. How else were they supposed to be getting tired if not due to the pace of the game?

What I meant was, the question of how fit Wasps are is irrelevant to how fit the Chiefs were, individual players were obviously tired - not just relative to Wasps.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

On a separate note, Taylor was immense today. The hooker battle is real at the moment. Hartley and George are pretty comfortable at 2 and 16, but the other 2 squad places between LCD, Youngs and Taylor are very much up for grabs ATM. Taylor has to be in, I'd rank him above both of the other options after that game, his work rate is immense. After that between LCD and Youngs is tough. I did notice today that Chiefs put a lot of trust in LCD's throwing, opting to go to the back of the line out on the Wasps 5-10 metre lines. That's good news seeing as throwing is LCD's weakest aspect, it looks like he's improved.

Sorry if this isn't really relevant to the thread, if so I'll move this to the England EPS squad.

 

[BPM]

So who makes the round one 'Team of the Week'?

Tough one I'd say - a good few teams started with underwhelming performances, but a few individuals shone.

I'm going with:

1. Genge (Leicester)
2. Taylor (Wasps)
3. Afoa (Gloucester)
4. Attwood (Bath)
5. Witty (Newcastle)
6. Wilson (Newcastle)
7. Burger (Saracens)
8. Vunipola (Saracens)

9. Robson (Wasps)
10. Ford (Bath)
11. Pietersen (Leicester)
12. Scott (Gloucester)
13. Marchant (Harlequins)
14. Rokoduguni (Bath)
15. Goode (Saracens)

I know Scott played 13, but I couldn't really think of a 12 that made me sit-up and take notice of them. If Twelvetrees hadn't reverted to type in the second half - he was in ...

Similarly, Wilson played at 8 for Newcastle, but I thought his all round performance warranted a place in the team ahead of other back row players.

Burger's inclusion is perhaps a bit generous - I could have gone for Kvesic or Welch.

Harrison is unlucky to miss out.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

For me
1) Genge
2) Taylor
3) Cole
4) Witty
5) Ewels
6) Moriarty
7) Lam
8) McCaffrey
9) Harrison
10) Ford
11) Pieterson
12) Gooperth
13) Hurrell
14) Goneva
15) Marshall

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's good to see Ford seems to be getting back to his old form. I'd say Ford at the top of his game offers so much more than Farrell.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Harrison for England 10 though

 

[Every Time Ref]

Didn't really get the hype with Gopperth - BT were piling on the praise but to be honest I didn't see him do anything outstanding.

Only got round to watching Bath last night, my thoughts in brief:

Fantastic defence, which I hope is a sign of things to come under Blackadder. Also lineout defence - although we didn't steal many, we kept disrupting.

Discipline was so much better then last year, for the first 70. Worryingly clear from the last 10 that the tendency is still there however.

Good games:
Ford, obvs
Attwood for me was actually MON, tireless grunt work
Fotuali'i
Roko as ever
Garvey - it was the kind of performance that requires good leadership so deserves a mention

Disappointing games:
Denton - quiet. He's always quiet
Banahan looked rusty, couple of mistakes

Cook is getting crucified for the yellow, I'm not sure any player in the world wouldn't have done the same. Given his record though it's hard to have sympathy

 

[Which Tyler]

Didn't really get the hype with Gopperth - BT were piling on the praise but to be honest I didn't see him do anything outstanding.

Only got round to watching Bath last night, my thoughts in brief:

Fantastic defence, which I hope is a sign of things to come under Blackadder. Also lineout defence - although we didn't steal many, we kept disrupting.

Discipline was so much better then last year, for the first 70. Worryingly clear from the last 10 that the tendency is still there however.

Good games:
Ford, obvs
Attwood for me was actually MON, tireless grunt work
Fotuali'i
Roko as ever
Garvey - it was the kind of performance that requires good leadership so deserves a mention

Disappointing games:
Denton - quiet. He's always quiet
Banahan looked rusty, couple of mistakes

Cook is getting crucified for the yellow, I'm not sure any player in the world wouldn't have done the same. Given his record though it's hard to have sympathy

A] You found a full replay? where was it?
B] I don't think Bladders can be credited with anything much at this stage - he's only been in the country a week or. This early season is the work deon by Booth and Edwards - possibly with Bladder's input over skype; but I doubt he'll have been doing too much whilst still learning the names of most of the players; NH reffing styles etc etc.
C] As for Cook - you're dead right; he did absolutely the right thing (as did the ref). He was about 7m back rather than 10, but less than 5m from his own try line; with no-one in place behind him to make the tackle legally. Stop the try and cop the yellow every day; a very professional foul.
People have been condemning him because he's Chris Cook, and without actually seeing the incident; and people have been condemning him because Saints went on to score (an illegal) try anyway, which is a purely hind-sight decision.

 

[JJFlash]

Now who remembers Carl Fearns? Which club did he play for before emigrating to France ;-)
Well, he's now playing Top14 for Lyon and scored two tries on Saturday and apparently had a very good game.

 

[ncurd]

Fearns bah whos needs him we have Burgess damn left umm Falateau damn injured 10 minuites in.

Seriously though you won't find many Bath fans who think letting Fearns go was the greatest of plans.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

A]Stop the try and cop the yellow every day; a very professional foul.

Haven't seen the incident, so can't comment specifically.

But, in most circumstances I doubt that's the right mindset. We often see 10 point plus swings in sin bin periods anyway and a yellow to stop a try will often lead to immediate points, whether a pen, a pen try or a line out with driving maul.

Context and game situation is all. In the last minute you could be the hero for taking one for the team. But otherwise what looks like a smart move to save a try can be a Pyrrhic victory.

 

[ncurd]

I partially agree the best kind of professional foul is the one you get away with (that is when it's not dangerous play). Yes the ref is a muppet and the other side have a right to be aggrieved but to pretend it's not part of the game is a lie.

However the one you get carded for I've never been convinced by the 10 point swing average. Either you let in a ton of points like Bath did or you shut up shop and defend it out.

I think it's a judgement call if your defence has been holding strong like Bath's had been you can probably take the risk like Cook did. However if your in a game where both sides have been scoring freely you're probably being a colassal ***.

Still either way Bath had a 18 points lead with 7 mins to go I think Cook could rightly think they won't score 3 try's in that time so tried to take one for the team.

However in equal masure Bath probably could of taken that one try and been better suited for the next 7 mins.

So yeah can't decide if Cook was right or wrong on that one. In the end we won so he can probably cop some flak for allowing them to have a chance but not admoish him too much in case he needs to do it next time if Bath are merely 4 points in the lead with 2 mins to go.

 

[Which Tyler]

However the one you get carded for I've never been convinced by the 10 point swing average. Either you let in a ton of points like Bath did or you shut up shop and defend it out.

That 10 point average is way out of date; and stems from the early days of using the yellow card. Rugby has come a long way since then, and defences have become better, either with 15 or 14 men on the pitch.

According to Rugby World, the average points difference scored in the Prem for the 2013-14 season was 3.5

The match situation for the Cook card was 18-0 up, with 7 minutes to go; and an offence that is often not-carded. Perfectly reasonable (IMO) to expect Bath to weather that storm.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Now who remembers Carl Fearns? Which club did he play for before emigrating to France ;-)
Well, he's now playing Top14 for Lyon and scored two tries on Saturday and apparently had a very good game.

Sale

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wasps Devlopment squad

Correction

 

[JJFlash]

Sale

And apparently, a scouser.