Australian Squad for Wales Games

[TNT88]

Thought I'd make a thread for speculation on the aussie line up v Wales seeing as it pops up in most super rugby threads.

I expect Deans to pick a fair few uncapped young players in form, particularly from the Brumbies.

As for the starting 22, I'd be looking at:

Props:
Robinson
Kepu
Slipper
Palmer

Hookers:
Moore
Palota Nau

Locks:
Horwill
Simmons
Sharpe
Pyle

Backrow:
Pocock
Palu
Higgenbotham
Hooper
Mowen/Dennis

Backline (will be all over the shot)

9. Genia/White
10. Beale/Cooper
11. Ioane
12. McCabe/Barnes
13. Horne/AAC
14. Tomane/Cummins/Shipperly
15. AAC/Beale/Mogg

That's off the top of my head.

 

[psychic duck]

Props:
Robinson
Kepu
Slipper
Palmer

 

[welshglory]

Don't get too cocky Duck. He won't have an easy time against Robinson and if Moore is next to him he'll add a lot of power as well, Kepu is much better on the tighthead and Palmer is an excellent scrummager.

 

[psychic duck]

Don't get too cocky Duck. He won't have an easy time against Robinson and if Moore is next to him he'll add a lot of power as well, Kepu is much better on the tighthead and Palmer is an excellent scrummager.

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will be interesting to see if they've improved

Robinson had a hard match against the Hair Bear the last time he played Wales

 

[welshglory]

Aus had Saia Faingaa (**** scrummager) and Ben Alexander (a loosehead playing at tighthead) that day. If they play Moore and Kepu or Palmer there scrum will be much stronger. They are not nearly as bad as some try to make out.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I just read that James O'Connor is out for these tests... Pity, now they need to get another girl to sing the National Anthems before the games...

 

[TNT88]

haha yes, my bad, O'Connor is out for the Wales games

As for the front row, it's getting there. Robinson and Moore will hold their own against anyone. But that tighthead spot is where we really need to target. I agree that Wales have our measure there. The coaches will be crossing their fingers we get no front row injuries between now and the first test.

edit: Might add a draft XV now, and updated it after each super15 round.

1. Robinson (tahs)
2. Moore (bru)
3. Slipper (reds)
4. Horwill (reds)
5. Simmons (reds)
6. Higgenbotham (reds)
7. Pocock (force)
8. Palu (tahs)
9. Genia (reds)
10. Beale (rebels)
11. Ioane (reds)
12. McCabe (bru)
13. Horne (tahs)
14. Tomane (bru)
15. AAC (tahs)

 

[SomeOke]

haha yes, my bad, O'Connor is out for the Wales games

As for the front row, it's getting there. Robinson and Moore will hold their own against anyone. But that tighthead spot is where we really need to target. I agree that Wales have our measure there. The coaches will be crossing their fingers we get no front row injuries between now and the first test.

edit: Might add a draft XV now, and updated it after each super15 round.

1. Robinson (tahs)
2. Moore (bru)
3. Slipper (reds)
4. Horwill (reds)
5. Simmons (reds)
6. Higgenbotham (reds)
7. Pocock (force)
8. Palu (tahs)
9. Genia (reds)
10. Beale (rebels)
11. Ioane (reds)
12. McCabe (bru)
13. Horne (tahs)
14. Tomane (bru)
15. AAC (tahs)

Pity Pocock is so good, otherwise I'd love to see Liam Gill or Hooper get a run.
What about shipperly instead of Tomane and Cummins over Horne? Or alternatively Barnes starting at 10 and Beale going back to fullback?
Aus backline players seem to have a lot more versatility than most other countries with most of their players being comfortable just about anywhere.

Not arguing with you just wondering about Aus opinion on the matter .

 

[TNT88]

All good questions.

Gill is captaining the U20 side at the WC. (I think that clashes)
Hooper definitely needs to be developed, I see him on the bench for a few games. Maybe even coming on at #6 to play alongside Pocock.
Cummins is one I hope gets a go on the bench, great impact player. I would probably start with AAC over him at 13 if Horne is not selected (just to keep experiance in the backline). But if Cummins performs he could be in contention for game 2.
Shipperly is playing well, the public opinion is very much divided over who should get that #14 jersey. I am really just guessing at this point, I doubt the coaches know who they'll choose either.

 

[Black_Magic]

Or alternatively Barnes starting at 10 and Beale going back to fullback?
Aus backline players seem to have a lot more versatility than most other countries with most of their players being comfortable just about anywhere.

Yeah, but that versatility is both a big asset and a curse - I think players tied to one position develop some specific skills and get even better.
As for that idea with Barnes, I'd vote for that, although he hasn't played well at all in the SR this year. But, as is the case with All Blacks' Nonu and few others, there are players that clearly step up in a national jersey. Barnes was awesome at the RWC last year. The other change I'd make would be to switch AAC to centre, he can play pretty much everywhere (with his weight he could even be useful in the scrum ;-) ), but I think 13 is the right place for him. McCabe & AAC seems like a terrific pairing to me.

So, my Aussie backs would be, from 10 to 15:
Barnes - Ioane - McCabe - Ashley-Cooper - Tomane (not really sure about this one though) - Beale

Who is Cooper Vuna eligible for?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd like to see AAC back at 15 - I think it's by far his best position, it's just that he's not as good as Beale there. If Beale were to move to 10 then that leaves the 15 spot open for AAC.
I wouldn't put Barnes at 10, I think his best position is 12 - don't know enough about Aussie centres to suggest who to partner him though (Mortlock? )

 

[TNT88]

AAC is a solid 15. He was also good at #14 last year, was basically playing a 2nd fullback though. If Beale goes to 10 I think he'll be in the outside backs.

Also, the uninjured centres currently are: McCabe, Horne, Faingaa, Inman, Cummins.

Who is Cooper Vuna eligible for?

I imagine NZ, Tonga and probably Australia seeing as he's lived here for a while. I imagine we'll find out either this season or next season considering how good he is getting.

---

Also news came out today that Deans will be using top XV players against Scotland, so some of them will be playing 3 games in 7 days. (Super rugby, Scotland, Wales). Apparently we "can't have a repeat of 2009".

 

[Cave Dweller]

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Pyle
5. Horwill
6. Dennis
7. Pocock
8. Higginbotham

9- Genia
10- Cooper
11- Ioane
12- McCabe
13- Faingaa/AAC
14- AAC/Speight
15- Beale

 

[InsaneAsylum]

would love to see pyle/jones in the locks as rob simmons is useless. gill/hooper in the squad with higgo, pocock, mowen in the backrow
genia, beale, ioane, mccabe, aac, tomane/shipperley/other newbie, gerrard

bench from: elsom, phipps, barnes, a.faingaa, barnes

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I imagine NZ, Tonga and probably Australia seeing as he's lived here for a while. I imagine we'll find out either this season or next season considering how good he is getting.

he's been impressive as of late, his tackling has improved from the start of the season, but his improved attack has a lot to do with the ball he's getting from beale as opposed to cipriani/o'connor. i think deans will be stupid to go with anyone else but beale at 10 for this reason.

forgot to mention cooper in my previous post, i think he should be in the squad but eased back into the lineup from the bench. i reckon there were a lot of 'learnings' for cooper out of the world cup and he'll come back a better, smarter player. what the wallabies need is genuine wingers to succeed ioane. i'm not a fan of playing a centre (or forward in the case of samo/higgo) on the wing simply because they're a "good player", pick the best team based on each position, not the best players and try to adapt them into unfamiliar positions.

 

[welshglory]

How about Palu? I think he's the best number 8 in Australia, he seems to be getting back to his best as well.

 

[TNT88]

Yea, he is getting better as the season goes on. Can't wait to see him in a gold jersey again. The competition is tight for the 8 jersey, but no one is head and shoulders above the rest.

 

[madflyhalf]

When the squad will be announced?


I think an extended squad could be like thiks

Props: Alexander, Kepu, Robinson, Slipper, Palmer

Hookers: Moore, TPN, Charles, Fainga'a

Second rows: Horwill, Simmons, Jones, Pyle

Backrows: Higginbotham, Pocock, Gill, Palu, Elsom, Samo, Dennis, McCalman

SHs: Genia, White, McKibbin

Inside backs: Barnes, Ashley-Cooper, McCabe, Horne, Cooper, O'Connor

Outside backs: Beale, Ioane, Morahan, Kingston, Gerrard, Cummins Mitchell


IMO
Alexander should be on the bench as he can cover both loose and tighthead, but he's not a pure tighthead, much better Kepu there.

We're gonna see Charles against Scotland I think, he's performing very well for all SR, deserves to be called

Troubles in locks: retiring Sharpe and Vickerman's injury have left a big hole in lineout and much more in tight play as Vickerman is vital for his hard hitting game. Hugh Pyle should be there, he manage lineouts very well, and Luke Jones too I liked him for all SR season, great talent, someone says that he's better at 6, but IMO Wallabies need his game as 4.
Dave Dennis should be 6 with Higginbotham 8 and Palu on the bench. Elsom is nowhere near to a match-22 jersey.

Big dilemma with Gill away with U.20, hope Deans won't forget him for Rugby Championship! He's better than Pocock at the moment, and now Wallabies need more a Gill than a Hooper.

Genia is back in form, Nic White played so good for all SR, McKibbin is the 3d option, still better than Phipps.

Barnes is not playing good, well... he's playing very bad, but he was doing so exactly a year ago, but when Deans trusted him (too late IMO) at RWC he was outstanding. Cooper is on his way back, but 10 jersey now belongs to KB!

Looking forward for the centre pairing: I love AAC at 13, but as I said milions of times before he can't play alongside McCabe (or A Fainga'a), too similar, if Beale will be 10, I'd go with Barnes 12 (waiting for JOC) and AAC 13.
Otherwise I'd try the current 'tahs pairing, with AAC 12 and Horne 13.

For the back 3, AAC is still primary option at 15 if Beale would be at flyhalf spot; Ioane raised up his level in these last few games, Mitchell still recovering and looks it's gonna be better than expected, Kingston and Cummins deserve a call, and, IMO, Morahan.
He's a better option than Shipperley, he can cover 11-14 and mostly 15, his kicking game is better than anyone bar... Mark Gerrard. He's been outstanding in this SR, who knows if he's gonna be selected, he was doing good also in 2011 SR, got his chance against Samoa but didn't do well. Hope to see him tested again!

For first test against Scotland, with mostly Force and Reds players:

Cowan
Charles
Slipper
Jones
Horwill (c)
Higginbotham
Pocock
McCalman
Genia (for 40')
Cooper
Ioane
McCabe
Cummins
Shipperley
Morahan


after this test, the best 22 could be:

Robinson
Moore
Kepu
Simmons/Jones/Pyle
Horwill
Higginbotham/Dennis
Pocock
Palu/McCalman
Genia
Beale
Ioane
Barnes (O'Connor if fit)
Horne
Gerrard
Ashley-Cooper

TPN, Alexander, Pyle/Simmons/Jones, McCalman/Samo, White, Cooper/Barnes (if JOC fit), Morahan/Cummins/Kingston

 

[Cave Dweller]

 

[Darwin]

Really good analysis madflyhalf! Just heard it mentioned that the squad is set to be named tomorrow.

Looking the extended squad you suggest:

Props: Alexander, Kepu, Robinson, Slipper, Palmer

Agree with these 5 props, though I expect Ma'afu will still be ahead of Palmer in the pecking order. Palmer is a bit limited around the field, but he is a strong scrummaging tight-head prop - a rarity among Aussie props!

Hookers: Moore, TPN, Charles, Fainga'a

Agree again. Hanson has also been good for the Reds.

Second rows: Horwill, Simmons, Jones, Pyle

Is Sharpe still available? If so I expect he will be picked. Jones has been good, and Pyle deserves a chance. I expect he Waratahs duo of Timani and Douglas will be close too. Peter Kimlin may also be an option.

Backrows: Higginbotham, Pocock, Gill, Palu, Elsom, Samo, Dennis, McCalman

By the sounds of it Elsom will miss out - a good decision in my opinion. I don't expect Samo to be selected either, as he's struggled to make the Reds 22 this season, as is almost 36! I think Ben Mowen will be close to inclusion as he has been very consistent all season for the Brumbies. Liam Gill will be captaining the under 20 team in South Africa so I don't think he will be included (though he does warrant inclusion based on his form), so I expect Michael Hooper will be given a chance to backup Pocock, while Matt Hodgson may also be included.

SHs: Genia, White, McKibbin

Massive step down from Genia to be next best 9! I expect Phipps will be included, though he has been pretty average for most of the year. White has impressed at times, as has McKibben

Inside backs: Barnes, Ashley-Cooper, McCabe, Horne, Cooper, O'Connor

Agree with these selections, and I also think Anthony Faingaa will be inlcuded.

Outside backs: Beale, Ioane, Morahan, Kingston, Gerrard, Cummins Mitchell

Looks like Mitchell will be fit, though whether he will be ready for test rugby is another question! Probably one of the most open areas in the squad is the outside backs - I think the likes Vuna, Tomane, Mogg, Shipperly are all genuine options too.