Are South Africa Missing out on players with huge potential ?

[TRF_heineken]

As the balance of financial power continues to shift in favour of England and France, there will start to be more credence in what you say, but in the case of England's players so far, I disagree. The players so far who have gone on to play for England have been as a result of a happy coincidence and have been brought to the country by clubs acting of their own volition with no RFU involvement - they were not sought out as potential future England players. When Mouritz Botha came to play for Bedford Athletic (level 5) and Hendre Fourie came to play for Rotherham (level 2), I don't imagine that anyone involved thought that they had a chance of playing for England, they developed as players in positions where England were thin on the ground and the rest is history. I know that these two are extreme examples, but all of the non-English born players I can think of came to the country along similar lines.

If you go on to someone else's land and take a pheasant, you have poached it. If that same pheasant strays onto your land, it's yours for the taking.

Unless it is tagged...

 

[goodNumber10]

But, if you get only a work permit, you have to return to your home country for a certain period of time when that permit expires, and then re-apply. And isn't a work permit limited to a period of 6 months or less?? Surely that will have an impact on the season for clubs when a bunch of their players have to return to the SH for a certain period of time and prevent them from being in England.

not sure you have that right mate.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

These threads are as cyclical as global economic crises- and it's no surprise they tend to happen when we're all desperate for more rugby...

Hang on a minute mate.....are you trying to tell me that Greece has a rugby team?

 

[ZeroTwo]

So what's the suggestion for an alternative system for players coming in, as opposed to just bickering about who is a project player.

I'd like to hear a way it could genuinely be fixed. Increase the residency? Make it so grandparents nationalities don't matter?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

So what's the suggestion for an alternative system for players coming in, as opposed to just bickering about who is a project player.

I'd like to hear a way it could genuinely be fixed. Increase the residency? Make it so grandparents nationalities don't matter?

I was trying to think of some improved criteria before. I'd say change the grandparent rule to a parent rule (i.e. Grandad's Irish, who cares, dad's Irish, come on in) and either improve the residency (not sure how this would clash with gaining normal citizenship- leave that the same and only have longer for sporting qualification) or have a rule whereby you must have lived in the country from before the age of 16 or whatever. None of them are ideal though

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

So what's the suggestion for an alternative system for players coming in, as opposed to just bickering about who is a project player.

I'd like to hear a way it could genuinely be fixed. Increase the residency? Make it so grandparents nationalities don't matter?

"I'd like to hear a way it could genuinely be fixed. Increase the residency? Make it so grandparents nationalities don't matter?"

Personally, I dont think people from Hong Kong are the answer....to answer your question. Residency etc etc, chinese havn't signed the treaty of Waitangi.

Did I answer your question?

 

[ZeroTwo]

Excuse me? Not sure if I get the joke.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Unless it is tagged...

Not as far as I'm aware in the UK.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

Excuse me? Not sure if I get the joke.

It wasn't a joke

 

[ZeroTwo]

It wasn't a joke

Then feel free to explain.

Anyway, no. You didn't answer the question.

 

[goodNumber10]

So what's the suggestion for an alternative system for players coming in, as opposed to just bickering about who is a project player.

I'd like to hear a way it could genuinely be fixed. Increase the residency? Make it so grandparents nationalities don't matter?

Why does it have to be fixed, I think things just need clarity and loop holes need to be closed, ala Nani-Williams/Armitage. Qualification teams need to be set globally by World Rugby not independent Unions (I suggest over 20's), and imho NZ need to pay the players they want to keep more/make better packages.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I was trying to think of some improved criteria before. I'd say change the grandparent rule to a parent rule (i.e. Grandad's Irish, who cares, dad's Irish, come on in) and either improve the residency (not sure how this would clash with gaining normal citizenship- leave that the same and only have longer for sporting qualification) or have a rule whereby you must have lived in the country from before the age of 16 or whatever. None of them are ideal though

I think there's been a thread on this relatively recently. I agree that removing grandparents as a qualifier is a must and would cup out quite a lot of nonsense straight away. I would also increase residence to 5 years and make it so that the U20 national side ties you to a nation. Consideration needs to be given re: residence so that talented youngsters who have moved to a different country because of their parents' choice to move don't get left in the wilderness.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

Then feel free to explain.

Anyway, no. You didn't answer the question.

It's a rugby forum.....welcome to the residency

 

[ZeroTwo]

Why does it have to be fixed, I think things just need clarity and loop holes need to be closed, ala Nani-Williams/Armitage. Qualification teams need to be set globally by World Rugby not independent Unions (I suggest over 20's), and imho NZ need to pay the players they want to keep more/make better packages.

Well I just think with an increase in uneven funding there'll be repercussions. So for instance I have a friend in HK who has a Kiwi mother and English father. If he were decent enough at rugby he'd pick England every time for the money opportunities. Now, I don't blame him, but it will increase a divide between tier 1 and 2 nations eventually. Especially if the funding gets to the point where football has it and you can earn a decent wage at 15 with a club. Players would come over age 15 and be qualified by 19.

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It's a rugby forum.....welcome to the residency

Also not sure what you're on about but it doesn't feel constructive in the slightest.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

Well I just think with an increase in uneven funding there'll be repercussions. So for instance I have a friend in HK who has a Kiwi mother and English father. If he were decent enough at rugby he'd pick England every time for the money opportunities. Now, I don't blame him, but it will increase a divide between tier 1 and 2 nations eventually. Especially if the funding gets to the point where football has it and you can earn a decent wage at 15 with a club. Players would come over age 15 and be qualified by 19.

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Also not sure what you're on about but it doesn't feel constructive in the slightest.

OK, and you're right.....it's not constructive. Sorry China (plate)

 

[ZeroTwo]

You know I'm not Chinese, right? But nice use of cockney slang.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

You know I'm not Chinese, right? But nice use of cockney slang.

I'm not cockney either....fridge freezer (GEEZA). :lol:

Joking aside. What's you're prediction with AB v SA?

 

[goodNumber10]

Well I just think with an increase in uneven funding there'll be repercussions. So for instance I have a friend in HK who has a Kiwi mother and English father. If he were decent enough at rugby he'd pick England every time for the money opportunities. Now, I don't blame him, but it will increase a divide between tier 1 and 2 nations eventually. Especially if the funding gets to the point where football has it and you can earn a decent wage at 15 with a club. Players would come over age 15 and be qualified by 19

Unless you introduce a global salary cap that will always happen, and as such you'll penalise players in the NH because the SH are poorer.

 

[ZeroTwo]

I'm not cockney either....fridge freezer (GEEZA). :lol:

Joking aside. What's you're prediction with AB v SA?

Not sure. Not seen much of Sopoaga and Dagg doesn't seem well regarded here. I'm unconvinced by the S.A. defence though, and the All Black centres can cut anyone to shreds. Even with that back row.

I think NZ by less than 5. I'd go with....28-24 to the Kiwis. What's your call?

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

Not sure. Not seen much of Sopoaga and Dagg doesn't seem well regarded here. I'm unconvinced by the S.A. defence though, and the All Black centres can cut anyone to shreds. Even with that back row.

I think NZ by less than 5. I'd go with....28-24 to the Kiwis. What's your call?

At last man, someone gives a score. I think AB's by 10, but depending on our wings and line-outs in NZ'S favour.

Good call bro,

14v 24