All Blacks vs Springboks, July 10th 2010

[SelimNiai]

Not odd at all mate, go read my threads. Of my top 4 teams 3 of them are SH teams!
Oh, and watch out - Bullitt may kick you off, you are not following the topic!!!!

You've been found out so just drop it or give us imperical proof cos the more you go on your credibility is getting smaller and smaller

 

[Darwin]

What is the South African team likely to look like? The team was changed around a bit in the first few matches, so it isn't obvious what the top combination is (at least to me as an outsider).

 

[SavageLez]

You've been found out so just drop it or give us imperical proof cos the more you go on your credibility is getting smaller and smaller

You need to drop it buddy.
We are talking Tri Nations here so unless that is what you want to talk about go to the SavageLez Scottish thread and continue your thoughts there. This is getting petty now, grow up!
Go do yourself a favour and read the entire thread then comment!

 

[Seaton]

What is the South African team likely to look like? The team was changed around a bit in the first few matches, so it isn't obvious what the top combination is (at least to me as an outsider).

The team will announced to day, or should be, but if training sessions are anything to go by, this is what the team should look like

1. Guthro Steenkamp
2. John Smit
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Bakkies Botha/ Danie Rossouw (if niether are fit Bekker will slot in)
5. Victor Matfield
6. Schalk Burger
7. Francious Louw
8. Pierre Spies

9. Ricky Januarie
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Wynand Olivier
13. Jacques Fourie
14. Jean de Villiers
15. Zane Kirchner


and all things apparently put Ruan Pienaar and Butch James warming the bench, the forwards are a wildcard though

 

[nickdnz]

Not a big fan of de Villiers on the wing, I don't think he has the speed to keep up with the likes of Jane and Rokocoko.

 

[Jer1cho]

He doesn't. Aplon is perfectly capable of playing wing, as he specializes in the position. No idea why PdV is playing guys out of position for a test as big as this.

 

[nickdnz]

He doesn't. Aplon is perfectly capable of playing wing, as he specializes in the position. No idea why PdV is playing guys out of position for a test as big as this.

Agreed. Just out of curiousity, one area I though NZ may have a slight advantage, how good is de Jongh's tackling? Because he's a pretty small guy, will he be able to contain Nonu if he is 2nd 5?
I know the Stormers had a great defence, so is it safe to presume he can hold his own?
This is a genuine question, as I don't know.

 

[Jer1cho]

Probably not, which is why Olivier will start the test at Number 12.

 

[rugbywriter]

I'll be pretty angry if Jean is on the wing. Why not van den Heever, Hougaard or Aplon? And Jean de Villiers and Jaques Fourie in midfield would be incredible defence, although Wynand is a pretty good defender too. I still can't drop the fact that Kirchner is still being taken seriously. He's my least favourite selection in the entire squad. Van den Heever at wing and Steyn at fullback!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jer1cho]

I agree 100% with you dude.

 

[SavageLez]

Juan de Jong's tackling is one of his strong points. He is not big but relishes tackling! He uses the traditional go in low tackle method, he was solid in the S14 and had Jamie Roberts well covered in the recent test match against Wales. Roberts is approx 20 kg heavier than De Jong and he still managed fine.

 

[rugbywriter]

I could be wrong, but wasn't Francois Steyn a player-of-the-year nominee last year? If he was, then it just shows how unproffesional PDV is - dropping him because he's havig his period

 

[SavageLez]

You are right. He was not soley responsible for SA winning the Tri Nations but he was very instrumental!
Apparently even the NZ tv ads have Steyn in them for the forthcoming Tri Nations. PdV is a nimwit!

 

[Jer1cho]

All of the NZ commentators said they don't understand how he is not a regular starter. They call the decision 'extraordinary'. Steyn is BY FAR the best specialist 15 we have.

 

[Boggle]

But Steyn doesn't -want= to play for us at the moment, unless I missed something somewhere, that's the basic gist of it isn't it ?

I mean, Pdivvy tried his best to actually get Steyn on board for the Welsh test, but apparently the agreement was that he was not to be picked after that one game.

PDV can be a tool of note sometimes, but I think this is just a case of Francious Steyn being a little punk (ok a huge 100+ kilogram punk, but a punk nonetheless).
Would be wonderful if someday we got the whole story, seriously, go write a auto bio Steyn, every rugby player is doing it these days.

 

[rugbywriter]

But Steyn doesn't -want= to play for us at the moment, unless I missed something somewhere, that's the basic gist of it isn't it ?

I mean, Pdivvy tried his best to actually get Steyn on board for the Welsh test, but apparently the agreement was that he was not to be picked after that one game.

PDV can be a tool of note sometimes, but I think this is just a case of Francious Steyn being a little punk (ok a huge 100+ kilogram punk, but a punk nonetheless).
Would be wonderful if someday we got the whole story, seriously, go write a auto bio Steyn, every rugby player is doing it these days.

No I don't think that's accurate. I'm fairly certain that Francois does want to play for the Boks. PDV and Frans have never gotten along. I mean, he got dropped that one game in the tri-nations last year because Div wanted to put his boyfriend Pienaar at fullback. We lost that match and then he put Steyn back.

The problem is that Div is seemingly gay for both Kirchner and Pienaar. I mean come on, last year, after Morne scored 31 points against the AB's, Div still reckoned that Pienaar was our best flyhalf. It's like he's in love with him. Kirchner too!

 

[SavageLez]

SA have not won a match there since 1930's or something. One draw in the 90's, NZ to edge it on Sat I think!

 

[nickdnz]

Yeah, I have to admit I'm a little bit confused on the Steyn story.

PdV did change his selection policy to select over seas player, but from what I understood, players that are in South Africa would get selected ahead of them. My problem is this.

By rights, I don't think changing the selection policy is a good idea at all. All you do by selecting players from overseas, is encourage players to leave your country for a higher pay check, while having no encentive to keep them in South Africa. This policy acts as a quick fix to a problem that doesn't really exsist, as even with no Steyn, James and de Villiers (for now) you still have a very strong team. What it will do is weaken the domestic competition in South Africa as the top players will all be in Europe.
My issue is this -

If you say you are going to select over seas players, just do it. It was a bad idea in the first place, but when you start nit-picking about the selection of players not based on how talented they are, but on how talented they are + if they play in SA, the selection process becomes a real mess.

In Steyn's case, from what I gather from PdV, it is a complication between Racing Metro and the Springboks that is why he is not selected. While I can see many South African's frustrations that the most talented man for the job is not getting selected, I think it must be taken into account that by rights, when he left, he was not in the frame to be selected for South Africa at all, as the selection policy had not been loosened. He really has little right to expect to be in the Springboks, especially seeing as one of the reasons listed for him leaving was to escape from national pressure and expectations. I think PdV's stance on selecting over seas based players was a sign of him folding, and I think it will be shown as a weakness for players to exploit.

I really dislike Kirshner as a player. I think he is uncreative, a weak defender and target for the All Blacks. However, while he is not the best South African for the job, he does deserve a spot ahead of Steyn. Why? Because he is playing his rugby in South Africa, earning a lot less money and putting up with national criticism. Selecting Steyn ahead of Kirshner or any other fullback will send a very clear message to South African players. If you are important enough to the Springboks, you do not need to play in South Africa. People may not see this as big right now, but when Matfield is off to play his career in Toloun, Habanna has signed with Clermont, Fourie du Preez has signed a nice big bonus with the Osprays and Andres Bekker is captaining Newcastle, all of whom are still in the Springboks, you will find very quickly that the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers will no longer be competitive in the Super 14, and once those off-shore talent has gotten too old, South African reserves will have dried up.

That may be a very melo-dramatic take on what will happen, but in the long run, that is what you can expect when offshore talent is selected over home talent.

PS: SavageLes, you seem to switch back and forwards on who you think will win.

PSS: I don't think selecting Pienaar or Kirshner is based on PdV's homosexial feellings towards either player.

 

[rugbywriter]

Yeah, I have to admit I'm a little bit confused on the Steyn story.

PdV did change his selection policy to select over seas player, but from what I understood, players that are in South Africa would get selected ahead of them. My problem is this.

By rights, I don't think changing the selection policy is a good idea at all. All you do by selecting players from overseas, is encourage players to leave your country for a higher pay check, while having no encentive to keep them in South Africa. This policy acts as a quick fix to a problem that doesn't really exsist, as even with no Steyn, James and de Villiers (for now) you still have a very strong team. What it will do is weaken the domestic competition in South Africa as the top players will all be in Europe.
My issue is this -

If you say you are going to select over seas players, just do it. It was a bad idea in the first place, but when you start nit-picking about the selection of players not based on how talented they are, but on how talented they are + if they play in SA, the selection process becomes a real mess.

In Steyn's case, from what I gather from PdV, it is a complication between Racing Metro and the Springboks that is why he is not selected. While I can see many South African's frustrations that the most talented man for the job is not getting selected, I think it must be taken into account that by rights, when he left, he was not in the frame to be selected for South Africa at all, as the selection policy had not been loosened. He really has little right to expect to be in the Springboks, especially seeing as one of the reasons listed for him leaving was to escape from national pressure and expectations. I think PdV's stance on selecting over seas based players was a sign of him folding, and I think it will be shown as a weakness for players to exploit.

I really dislike Kirshner as a player. I think he is uncreative, a weak defender and target for the All Blacks. However, while he is not the best South African for the job, he does deserve a spot ahead of Steyn. Why? Because he is playing his rugby in South Africa, earning a lot less money and putting up with national criticism. Selecting Steyn ahead of Kirshner or any other fullback will send a very clear message to South African players. If you are important enough to the Springboks, you do not need to play in South Africa. People may not see this as big right now, but when Matfield is off to play his career in Toloun, Habanna has signed with Clermont, Fourie du Preez has signed a nice big bonus with the Osprays and Andres Bekker is captaining Newcastle, all of whom are still in the Springboks, you will find very quickly that the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers will no longer be competitive in the Super 14, and once those off-shore talent has gotten too old, South African reserves will have dried up.

That may be a very melo-dramatic take on what will happen, but in the long run, that is what you can expect when offshore talent is selected over home talent.

PS: SavageLes, you seem to switch back and forwards on who you think will win.

PSS: I don't think selecting Pienaar or Kirshner is based on PdV's homosexial feellings towards either player.

I do very much understand what yoou're trying to say. My problem is this:

While I agree with you that Francois knew what he was doing when he decided to play over-seas, so did the other guys. It is the EXACT same situation, but he is making allowances for the other guys, not France Steyn. Take Jean de Villers. We have Olivier and de Jongh playing great rugby, yet he chooses to play JDV. Look at Butch James. Steyn and Grant are both playing fantastic rugby but he's still keeping James in the mix. The bottom line is, he is showing double-standards. The simple fact is that he doesn't like Francois Steyn, so he will look for the first chance to drop him, but he will keep his other buddies in the team, even if they are playing over-seas.

PS: If he despises Steyn so much, why couldn't he then put Riaan Viljoen at fullback? That guy is incredible!

PSS: I know he actually isn't gay for those guys, I was just going for a little dramatization.

 

[Darwin]

South Africa team named: (http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...Injured-Springboks-cleared-to-play-All-Blacks)
Zane Kirchner, Jean de Villiers, Jaque Fourie, Wynand Olivier, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Ricky Januarie, Pierre Spies, Francois Louw, Schalk Burger, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Jannie du Plessis, John Smit (captain), Gurthro Steenkamp.
Reserves: Chiliboy Ralepelle, BJ Botha, Andries Bekker, Danie Rossouw, Ruan Pienaar, Butch James, Gio Aplon.



Both Rossouw and Bakkies Botha passed fit to play. I'm a bit surprised to see both Bekker and Rossouw on the bench - though Rossouw is obviously capable of covering the loose-forwards I would have thought they would have picked a specialist loose-forward on the bench.