All Blacks squad named tomorrow. Who Will make it?

[Larksea]

Henry is a good man. This is a strong squad they had some tough calls to make at the end of the day it's a very strong squad with a lot of experience and the key factor IMO is making sure the star players are fit and ready at the end and the top team strings a few games together before the knockout stage.

Congrats to the players that have made it but more so you gotta feel for the guys that didn't make the cut it's a cruel and harsh job at the top

Crockett
Gear
Sivivatu
Messam
Hoeata

All Great players and I think in all cases the Squad wouldn't be any weaker if they had made it and others didn't

 

[Dizzy]

in all honesty, I think the squad would have been weaker if Dagg stayed behind for Sivs and Jane stayed for Gear

 

[Darwin]

So glad they picked Vito, I'm sick of all of this hype around for Messam to deliver at Test level and he hasn't cut it.. ONCE. Vito attacks the ruck much better than him and is just as damaging running the ball. Probably expect Henry to use Dagg as a Wing at some stages during the pools. When you think about it he's taken 4 Fullbacks and 1 Winger.

While I agree that Messem hasn't really stepped up at test level, neither has Vito...

 

[Dizzy]

true Darwin, I dunno, maybe it's because Im a Canes fan

 

[nickdnz]

Well, I guess I'm happy to see Vito in there, although I'd easily have taken Messam over Thompson. Still not specialist backup at 7...better hope to god McCaw doesn't get injured. This is the second World Cup in a row that a Gear has missed out. I feel really sorry for the guy, as he's been loyal to New Zealand has probably won't be able to make another RWC. No Crockett is also a joke, as Woodcock is obviously not the player he was in 2008 and has only just come off an injury. Don't really like seeing Zac Guildford in the team over Sivivatu or Gear, but it wasn't unexpected (although I thought Sivivatu played better than Guildford).

 

[Larksea]

Careful bro- you'll get Larksea started all over again....

Heh no, Vito and Messam both had great seasons. They are quiet different players with different strengths. Vito is taller and very strong while messam is maybe more agile, Vito was maybe the best loose forward in the lineout and Messam was by far the best Forward in super15 for pick and go and one of the best for linebreaks. I honestly dont think there is much between them my major problem is why now? If Vito is the better option why select messam to start with then crush the guy. Sure Vito has been Great in ITM cup but if the shoe was on the other foot it would have been Vito who only had 80-90min of rugby in the tri nations and Messam tearing up the park in ITM cup.

If anything I still think Messam should be in the squad over Thompson, and Messam should have been given the job as McCaw's backup. As good as thompson is and his workrate they way he gives away penalties is cause for a log of fear. Looking at super15 stats alone Thompson at one stage was more than twise as many penalties for the amount of time he was on the field compared to others. Then last weekend he gave away 4 critical penalties which in a nutshell was "one of" the major reasons the All Blacks lost.

But at the end of the day we are talking about the "backup guy" I just hope McCaw comes through ok.

 

[UilamOsa]

It's a solid team. Not too many specialists so their well covered if injuries happen.

And if injuries happen barring the Dynamic Duo the AB's cover will be slotted straight in.

 

[Larksea]

Well, I guess I'm happy to see Vito in there, although I'd easily have taken Messam over Thompson. Still not specialist backup at 7...better hope to god McCaw doesn't get injured. This is the second World Cup in a row that a Gear has missed out. I feel really sorry for the guy, as he's been loyal to New Zealand has probably won't be able to make another RWC. No Crockett is also a joke, as Woodcock is obviously not the player he was in 2008 and has only just come off an injury. Don't really like seeing Zac Guildford in the team over Sivivatu or Gear, but it wasn't unexpected (although I thought Sivivatu played better than Guildford).

yeah I obiously agree with you about Messam v. thompson but also Re: Crockett Crockett may be a bit behind Woodcock come scrum time but I think he's lightyears ahead of woodcock in many other areas. Defence, Breakdown, ball in hand, Lineout lifting - Crockett has been very impressive, better than Tony has been in a long time.

I'm happy with the Guildford selection but at the same time sivivatu is a proven gamebreaker at the very top level, going back over the last few years there have been many games where defence has been so tight it's seemed impossible for any All Blacks to break things up but Sivivatu seems to be able to every time. Some games he was the only guy who could split the oposition - and I think that is something the squad will miss without him in it.

 

[Sneaki]

Sivivatu out for Guildford is a surprise, but I guess Guildford was 'in' the squad to begin with rather than 'injury cover' so they clearly liked what they'd seen in the S15. Disappointed but not surprised to see Gear not there, although having Jane in kinda makes up for it. The abundance of wing/fullbacks is interesting, against a team with a decent kicking game a back three of Dagg/Toeava, Jane and Muliaina would be a very safe option. Not to mention Henry apparently considers Dagg a possible starting fullback, so a Toeava, Jane, Dagg back three is a possibility.

I'm glad Vito's there, I thought his being dropped after that one mistake in the tri-nations last year was a bit ridiculous frankly.

Also while I'm talking about the loose forwards... the spelling nazi within me has to let you all know it's spelled Thomson people! No p!

 

[Steveskiez7]

While I agree that Messem hasn't really stepped up at test level, neither has Vito...

Well Vito definately hasn't played up to his potential at test level but at the end of a game you don't go "Argh Vito was absolutely dreadful." Messam on the other hand tends to draw that reaction, he's too erratic and doesn't offer enough stability & consistency. Vito could be their number 8 in the next World Cup too, this experience could be priceless for the years ahead.

 

[Larksea]

Well Vito definately hasn't played up to his potential at test level but at the end of a game you don't go "Argh Vito was absolutely dreadful." Messam on the other hand tends to draw that reaction, he's too erratic and doesn't offer enough stability & consistency. Vito could be their number 8 in the next World Cup too, this experience could be priceless for the years ahead.

2008 Messam was erratic but 2010 & 2011 Messam is not, look at the last game, no handeling errors, no penalties, no missed tackles yet still a high work rate. If anything Messam was the safe option - much more so than Thomson (thanks Sneaki) or Vito. However I do agree that Vito is a player for the future, kinda seems like it's only a matter of time before Vito is an established all black. However in world cup year the future counts for almost nothing. All that matters is what happens in the next couple of months.

It's tough on messam, South africa are the hardest team to shine against and he's had to sit on the sidelines for weeks then tossed into a game as part of a makeshift team with all new combinations against an almost full strength Springbok side, if he had been given a chance against Aussie like Thomson did he would prob have shown the form he needed for selection.

The main reason Messam wasn't used much in the early games was because he played every minute of every game for the chiefs, one of only a few players to do that for their team and the coaches wanted to rest him. All it did is hurt his chances big time.

 

[nickdnz]

I can't help but think some players were really unlucky in playing the last two games rather than the first two. I don't think there is any doubt that Gear would not have ripped up against Fiji and the weakened South African side, but a full strength Australia and South Africa were always going to be more difficult.

If there is two calls that have really annoyed me it is no Crockett and a specialist 7. I think Crockett has been better in every aspect of the game than Woodcock. His scrummaging is actually one of his biggest assets in my opinion. I'm a big Woodcock fan, and at the beginning of the year I'd have taken him despite his form, but Crockett has just been so immense both in his scrummaging and work rate.

No specialist 7 I think is a big mistake. I really like Vito but I don't see why a specialist 7 wasn't brought in. There is clearly no adequate cover for Richie McCaw, however we now have so many talented 7's in Sam Cane, Luke Braid, Scott Waldrom and Matt Todd that there is no way that Thomson can cover McCaw as well.

 

[ranger]

Interesting point regarding Slade over Cruden:
Henry pointed to Slade's ability to play wing and fullback as a major factor; Carter will play every major game unless there is an injury, with Slade on the bench. Slades versitility in being able to cover more positions from the bench is therefore a major plus. Also he indicated that Slade will spend a lot of time at the back even if hes playing 10, suggesting that he's looking at Dagg/Muliaina as an option to play first receiver on some plays, or that he would look to run the attack through the 9 jersey.

Then, if Carter does get injured, Cruden will most likely get called in as an injury replacement anyway.

 

[Larksea]

yeah some of henry's comments were a bit of a shock. Another being that Dagg may be the #1 fullback, huge shock since Henry has such a long relationship with Mills. Dagg was very very impressive but the reality is none of his awesome runs ended in trys and 5-6 of his ball carries ended with the ball being turned over to south africa. Mills may not have the wheels Dagg does but he is better at putting players into space, linking with his wingers and setting up trys and if he does tacke the ball to contact he almost never gives it to the oposition.

 

[ranger]

yeah some of henry's comments were a bit of a shock. Another being that Dagg may be the #1 fullback, huge shock since Henry has such a long relationship with Mills. Dagg was very very impressive but the reality is none of his awesome runs ended in trys and 5-6 of his ball carries ended with the ball being turned over to south africa. Mills may not have the wheels Dagg does but he is better at putting players into space, linking with his wingers and setting up trys and if he does tacke the ball to contact he almost never gives it to the oposition.

Yeahh it still seems like a 50/50 call to me. Mills is better at all those things you mentioned, but only when he wants to. Mills has been frustrating in that he looks to run himself far too often (moreso last season than this to be fair). He doesn't have too much pace any more and is probably the worst runner in any given All Blacks backline, the fact that he takes so many prime attacking opportunities for himself isn't on.
If we are going to have a fullback with a "me first" mentality, we may aswell take Dagg because hes better at it. If Mills plays to the strengths you mentioned he should definitely be the starter.

 

[Ripper]

No specialist 7 I think is a big mistake. I really like Vito but I don't see why a specialist 7 wasn't brought in. There is clearly no adequate cover for Richie McCaw, however we now have so many talented 7's in Sam Cane, Luke Braid, Scott Waldrom and Matt Todd that there is no way that Thomson can cover McCaw as well.

No need, the tournament is in New Zelaand, if McCaw goes down we can easily tell Todd or Braid to hop on one of a dozen domestic flights that day to wherever the All Blacks are currently based and join up with the camp within a couple of hours of recieving the phone call.

And lol at this debate over Messam vs Vito, who gives a ****. They were vying for the place to be the back up to the back up, i'll be shocked if Vito plays more than 80 minutes worth of Rugby the entire tournament bar an injury crisis.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Well if Dagg hadn't made numerous linebreaks he wouldn't have been turned over, but then he wouldn't have made the linebreaks in the first place. I'll take the guy carving up the opposition thank you. I'd blame the support players and not the guy making the line break. Maybe this is one of the reasons Guildford was given the nod; his support play is superior to all the other wingers, he runs off shoulders very very well.

If Braid was fit he may have been there with Thomson, the other people being mentioned (Todd, L.Braid) are both not up to test level yet. And anyone even suggesting Sam Cane is being ridiculous.

Woodcock and Ali Williams are bloody lucky. Williams has been shite in every game, i would've taken Hoeta, much stronger in the rucks, tackling and carrying. Woodcock hasn't looked good, and I'm struggling to remember when he was ever as good as Crockett is around the park.

 

[smartcooky]

Ben Franks: 1 and 3
John Afoa: 3, has been known to cover 1 and 2
Jarrad Hoeata: 5, 6 has played quite a bit of 8 in ITM cup
(loose forwards don't count apparently, more on this later)
Piri Weepu: 9, 10
Dan Carter: 10, 12
Colin Slade: 10, 15, 11, 14
SBW: 12, 13
Richard Kahui: 13, 12, 11, 14
Sivivatu, 11, 14 played enough 15 at Super 14 to cover.

McCaw 6, 7, 8
Carter also 15
Thomson 6, 8 (I don't think he should be allowed anywhere near a 7 jersey


Kahui has in fact played as many of his 12 tests in positions other than centre than he has AT centre.

C - 6 tests
RW - 4 tests (1 subbed on)
LW - 1 test (subbed on)
FB - 1 test (subbed on)

He also played RW v Munster (subbed on)

 

[Shaggy]

No need, the tournament is in New Zelaand, if McCaw goes down we can easily tell Todd or Braid to hop on one of a dozen domestic flights that day to wherever the All Blacks are currently based and join up with the camp within a couple of hours of recieving the phone call.

And lol at this debate over Messam vs Vito, who gives a ****. They were vying for the place to be the back up to the back up, i'll be shocked if Vito plays more than 80 minutes worth of Rugby the entire tournament bar an injury crisis.

Sure, if McCaw receives a tournament finishing injury, that's fine, but if he receives an injury that would only put him out for a couple of games, if he's replaced by a specialist from outside of the squad, he can't come back when he's fit ... this leaves Thomson to cover the openside (Messam could cover all three back row positions, where as Vito covers only two) for those games, or send Ritchie home.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Sure, if McCaw receives a tournament finishing injury, that's fine, but if he receives an injury that would only put him out for a couple of games, if he's replaced by a specialist from outside of the squad, he can't come back when he's fit ... this leaves Thomson to cover the openside (Messam could cover all three back row positions, where as Vito covers only two) for those games, or send Ritchie home.

Thomson will do a better job than any other 7 you'd bring in at this stage so it isn't a worry.