All Blacks squad named tomorrow. Who Will make it?

[smartcooky]

No need, the tournament is in New Zelaand, if McCaw goes down we can easily tell Todd or Braid to hop on one of a dozen domestic flights that day to wherever the All Blacks are currently based and join up with the camp within a couple of hours of recieving the phone call.

While this is true, its not that straightforward.

For starters, Braid is out for the rest of the year with a recurrence of his neck injury

Also, the stand-down period is seven days. If a player goes out of the tournament injured, his replacement cannot play for seven days, so if we were to lose McCaw say, in the quarter final (presumably v Argentina) and win it, we would have to face South Africa in the semi without a specialist openside flanker. This is not a prospect I would relish after seeing Brussouw do Thomson over at Port Elizabeth last weekend.

 

[sambãd5]

No need, the tournament is in New Zelaand, if McCaw goes down we can easily tell Todd or Braid to hop on one of a dozen domestic flights that day to wherever the All Blacks are currently based and join up with the camp within a couple of hours of recieving the phone call.

And lol at this debate over Messam vs Vito, who gives a ****. They were vying for the place to be the back up to the back up, i'll be shocked if Vito plays more than 80 minutes worth of Rugby the entire tournament bar an injury crisis.

with you on that one old friend. i wouldnt have had kahui in the squad either. toeava is being classed as a outside back by most people, and although off memory not great at 13 in test level, hes been playing there a bit in super rugby. and i mean - he only needs to backup sbw. things cant get THAT bad that quick.

 

[dan the man nz]

woodcock
mealamu
franks
thorn
williams
kaino
mccaw
ried
weepu
carter
toeava
nonu
smith
jane
dagg
hore
afoa
whitelock
thomson
cowan
slade
muliana

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Whereas I think it is the best squad (or close to) that could have been picked, I think that the way the selection was made was very wrong.

Th original list was given as 30 players and 4 or 5 (correct me please) "injury covers", like Crockett, Jane and Sivivatu, and said explicitly that the 3N squad should be the same as the WC one. If Henry rates Boric over Hoeata (I think we all do), he should have made it explicit from the beginning. I think this treatment is very unfair to Hoeata. I'm sure Crockett is taking this better than Hoeata: they were just treated differently.

Something similar can be said aobut Vito and Messam. If they were competing for a spot, that should have bee clear frol the beginning, calling 6 backrowers and telling them that most likely there were 5 spots. Messam has the right to feel upset.

 

[Darwin]

Whereas I think it is the best squad (or close to) that could have been picked, I think that the way the selection was made was very wrong.

Th original list was given as 30 players and 4 or 5 (correct me please) "injury covers", like Crockett, Jane and Sivivatu, and said explicitly that the 3N squad should be the same as the WC one. If Henry rates Boric over Hoeata (I think we all do), he should have made it explicit from the beginning. I think this treatment is very unfair to Hoeata. I'm sure Crockett is taking this better than Hoeata: they were just treated differently.

Something similar can be said aobut Vito and Messam. If they were competing for a spot, that should have bee clear frol the beginning, calling 6 backrowers and telling them that most likely there were 5 spots. Messam has the right to feel upset.

This was made explicit from the beginning - when Henry and co. named the original Tri-nations squad, special mention was made that Anthony Boric was not selected as he would take no part of the tri-nations. It was well known that if Boric proved his fitness he would be included in the final squad - I'm sure Hoeata knew he was unlikely to make the RWC. I have more sympathy for Liam Messem, but though it wasn't publicly stated, I'm sure Messem knew he was playing for his RWC spot in South Africa.

 

[Shaggy]

This was made explicit from the beginning - when Henry and co. named the original Tri-nations squad, special mention was made that Anthony Boric was not selected as he would take no part of the tri-nations. It was well known that if Boric proved his fitness he would be included in the final squad - I'm sure Hoeata knew he was unlikely to make the RWC. I have more sympathy for Liam Messem, but though it wasn't publicly stated, I'm sure Messem knew he was playing for his RWC spot in South Africa.

Yes, and if you also look at the players that were fringe players, they were all spoken to by the relevant coach and given specifics on areas that they needed to improve on - for example, Wayne Smith, as back coach, talked to Zac Guildford about the specific area he needed to improve on.

... While we as the rugby public, get generic comments about Messam being not up to the required level, Steve Hanson will have told Messam exactly what he needs to do to get back in the frame, and he, Hoeata, Crockett etc, will have been told that they are still wanted, and to stay fit in case they are called in as injury cover. - If they weren't wanted, they would have been told, like they told Stephen Donald.

 

[Dizzy]

Interesting point regarding Slade over Cruden:
Henry pointed to Slade's ability to play wing and fullback as a major factor; Carter will play every major game unless there is an injury, with Slade on the bench. Slades versitility in being able to cover more positions from the bench is therefore a major plus. Also he indicated that Slade will spend a lot of time at the back even if hes playing 10, suggesting that he's looking at Dagg/Muliaina as an option to play first receiver on some plays, or that he would look to run the attack through the 9 jersey.

Then, if Carter does get injured, Cruden will most likely get called in as an injury replacement anyway.

You can't call in injury cover. The 30men he picked are the only 30men who can compete at the World Cup.

 

[Dizzy]

You can't call in injury cover. The 30men he picked are the only 30men who can compete at the World Cup.

Ok just checked with my source and I just made a false statement, lol... Once you replace a man you can't bring him back

 

[Darwin]

You can't call in injury cover. The 30men he picked are the only 30men who can compete at the World Cup.

Not correct. If a player is injured and ruled out of the tournament he can be replaced in the squad.

 

[Darwin]

Ah, I see you beat me to it Dizzy......

 

[Larksea]

I honestly think if the All Blacks need to call in cover for 7 it wont be one of the kids (Todd, Braid, Cane) it will be one of the experienced guys

Waldrum, Whitelock, Latimer. I'd go for waldrum

Heck, maybe Holah (loooong shot) would get a look in. He was very impressive last night against wellington, Holah is no Richie McCaw but I at the breakdown and turnover ball I think he was actually better than McCaw. McCaw is better in most other areas though.

It's a strong squad, no one will be 100% happy with it. I'm sure the All Black coaches weren't all in agreement about who was selected and who was cut. 4-5 spots in the squad would have come down to 50/50 calls in the end.

Fricken harsh on the guys that missed out. Liam messam in particular but Gear as well. Messam would have come off the park on sunday morning thinking he had done enough, watching the game again he did ok. no mistakes, some good breakdown work - he was actuall one of the only guys to be effective moving boks off the ball who were trying to slow it down and for the amount of time he was on the park he arrived at more breakdowns than pretty much anyone else.

harsh harsh call.

 

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by Ripper No need, the tournament is in New Zelaand, if McCaw goes down we can easily tell Todd or Braid to hop on one of a dozen domestic flights that day to wherever the All Blacks are currently based and join up with the camp within a couple of hours of recieving the phone call.

And lol at this debate over Messam vs Vito, who gives a ****. They were vying for the place to be the back up to the back up, i'll be shocked if Vito plays more than 80 minutes worth of Rugby the entire tournament bar an injury crisis.


I don't agree with you here. Because if Read gets injured, im almost certain that Vito would be slotted in as he is pretty much a specialist 8 who can play 6

 

[Darwin]

I honestly think if the All Blacks need to call in cover for 7 it wont be one of the kids (Todd, Braid, Cane) it will be one of the experienced guys

Waldrum, Whitelock, Latimer. I'd go for waldrum

Heck, maybe Holah (loooong shot) would get a look in. He was very impressive last night against wellington, Holah is no Richie McCaw but I at the breakdown and turnover ball I think he was actually better than McCaw. McCaw is better in most other areas though.

Waldrom would be a good option, but I'd definately pick Todd or Luke Braid over Whitelock or Latimer. While Todd/Luke Braid don't have the experience of Latimer/Whitelock they are just much better openside flankers at the moment. Whitelock had a good season for the Crusaders on the blindside flank, which is by far his best position, as he lacks the pace and ability at the breakdown of a genuine openside flanker. Latimer is a good hard working player, but hasn't improved at all over the last couple of years - in fact I'd suggest he's actually gone backwards. He was playing largely on the blinside flank for the Chiefs (before Waldrom's injury) and watching BOP during the ITM Cup he is a long way behind both Luke Braid and Sam Cane (who I think is far too young to be considered at this stage). If the AB's selectors want to pick a genuine 7, they should at least pick someone who can compete with the best 7's in the world (which I believe Todd/Waldrom/Luke Braid can) - I don't think Whitelock/Latimer would actually add anything over a non-specialist such as Thomson/Messem/Vito...

 

[Shaggy]

Waldrom would be a good option, but I'd definately pick Todd or Luke Braid over Whitelock or Latimer. While Todd/Luke Braid don't have the experience of Latimer/Whitelock they are just much better openside flankers at the moment. Whitelock had a good season for the Crusaders on the blindside flank, which is by far his best position, as he lacks the pace and ability at the breakdown of a genuine openside flanker. Latimer is a good hard working player, but hasn't improved at all over the last couple of years - in fact I'd suggest he's actually gone backwards. He was playing largely on the blinside flank for the Chiefs (before Waldrom's injury) and watching BOP during the ITM Cup he is a long way behind both Luke Braid and Sam Cane (who I think is far too young to be considered at this stage). If the AB's selectors want to pick a genuine 7, they should at least pick someone who can compete with the best 7's in the world (which I believe Todd/Waldrom/Luke Braid can) - I don't think Whitelock/Latimer would actually add anything over a non-specialist such as Thomson/Messem/Vito...

I think it's more a case of lack of experience and game time rather than his age ... I don't see age as a deal breaker, Ritchie McCaw was young and inexperienced when he was picked, so was Josh Kronfeld, and Michael Jones ... I was really impressed with his play at the breakdown, for the Chiefs' when he marked Ritchie in the Crusaders match, during the Super Rugby

 

[Darwin]

I think it's more a case of lack of experience and game time rather than his age ... I don't see age as a deal breaker, Ritchie McCaw was young and inexperienced when he was picked, so was Josh Kronfeld, and Michael Jones ... I was really impressed with his play at the breakdown, for the Chiefs' when he marked Ritchie in the Crusaders match, during the Super Rugby

Yeah true, it is more of an experience thing rather than his age. With a season of Super Rugby behind him Cane may well be in contention for the AB's next year (at the age of 20) as he looks to be phenomenally talented.

 

[Larksea]

Waldrom would be a good option, but I'd definately pick Todd or Luke Braid over Whitelock or Latimer. While Todd/Luke Braid don't have the experience of Latimer/Whitelock they are just much better openside flankers at the moment. Whitelock had a good season for the Crusaders on the blindside flank, which is by far his best position, as he lacks the pace and ability at the breakdown of a genuine openside flanker. Latimer is a good hard working player, but hasn't improved at all over the last couple of years - in fact I'd suggest he's actually gone backwards. He was playing largely on the blinside flank for the Chiefs (before Waldrom's injury) and watching BOP during the ITM Cup he is a long way behind both Luke Braid and Sam Cane (who I think is far too young to be considered at this stage). If the AB's selectors want to pick a genuine 7, they should at least pick someone who can compete with the best 7's in the world (which I believe Todd/Waldrom/Luke Braid can) - I don't think Whitelock/Latimer would actually add anything over a non-specialist such as Thomson/Messem/Vito...

I agree though I think George Whitelock is under rated, in a pinch behind Liam Messam think he'd be my next pick. That game against the stormers this year impressed me. Game high 20 tackles and balls of steal, that's what will be needed if someone needs to come in and backup McCaw. He's also quite physical, bigger than McCaw and very experienced. Like Thompson he does get a fair bit of whistle though.

But I dont think he, Waldrum or any others for that matter would do as well or be as safe as Messam. And I think using any of the kids is a bad mistake. Unless they have done the business in something like a Super15 final or similar they are a big unknown. matt Todd as good as he is wasn't great in the final when he came on.

 

[ranger]

I agree though I think George Whitelock is under rated, in a pinch behind Liam Messam think he'd be my next pick. That game against the stormers this year impressed me. Game high 20 tackles and balls of steal, that's what will be needed if someone needs to come in and backup McCaw. He's also quite physical, bigger than McCaw and very experienced. Like Thompson he does get a fair bit of whistle though.

But I dont think he, Waldrum or any others for that matter would do as well or be as safe as Messam. And I think using any of the kids is a bad mistake. Unless they have done the business in something like a Super15 final or similar they are a big unknown. matt Todd as good as he is wasn't great in the final when he came on.

The entire point of having another specialist 7 is so you dont have to rely on just another big guy with a big tackle count.. We don't need physical, we need skill in the 7 jersey. Whitelock would be at the bottom of my list.