All Blacks squad named tomorrow. Who Will make it?

[Larksea]

I think the weekends test answered a few important questions and also left them with a couple of problems.

Props: Woodcock, B Franks, Owen Franks, John Afoa

Woodcock did enough, I think the All Blacks will miss crockett around the park though. His workrate around the park has been astonishing. The important thing is the Franks brothers, I very much believe they are the savior of NZ rugby. Owen Franks will be a tournament standout I think.

Hookers: Hore, Mealamu, Flynn

Too Late to make any changes though I honestly think Elliot is a better option than Flynn. Flynn does have more experience and that's what the coaches want in their backup man. Hore is currently #1 hooker in my book.

Locks: Thorn, Whitelock, Williams, Boric

Hoeata to make way for Boric.

Loosies: McCaw, Read, Kaino, Messam, Thompson

Thompson hasn't sealed the deal as a backup 7 but it's too late to bring someone else in now. Messam hasn't been at his best yet but he hasn't done anything wrong either. If anything he looks like a reliable backup option for 6/8 though he hasn't put as much pressure on kieran read, but he is the best 8 in the game - Shame he wasn't given a chance at 7 like thompson.

halfbacks: Weepu, Cowan, Elis

Too late to change, though I'd rather have someone else than Elis. The squad is commited to these three, just hope Elis isn't needed.

10: Carter, Slade

The fact that Cruden is tearing up ITM cup may have cast doubt in the minds of the All Black coaches but the reality is that if it was Cruden who thay had selected it would be Slade tearing up ITM cup right now with the one exception being goal kicking. Neither are proven goal kickers long term but Cruden clearly looks better right now in that area.

Midfield: Smith, nonu, Kahui, SBW

The first three have proven themselves. Some doubts over sonny bill but I still think he's the best option, too late to change. Though if nonu was injured it would be tempting to try kahui at 12 with smith at 13. It's a combination that has been talked about for a long time, would be interesting to see.

Wings: Jane, Guildford (Kahui & Dagg to cover)

Jane is currently the #1 IMO after being an outsider in the initial squad. But it's so tight that there is a chance even he won't make it. Out of the 6 wing options I rank Gear 6th, When it comes down to Sivivatu vs. Guildford I personally would pick Guildford. I don't believe he will have a bad game, his workrate is 2nd to none, he is a great counter attacker, links well with either Mills or Dagg and he also links very well with Dan Carter. Dan & Zac have a great combo in super rugby and it looks like it's the same in test rugby - Zac follows Dan around and things happen. But it just may be that Sivi get's the nod because of experience, it will also depend on how much his fittness has improved since the squad has been together.

Fullback: Mills, Dagg
Utility: Toeava

Pretty much a done deal Mils is an automatic selection and Dagg was good enough in the last game. Shame Ben Smith wasn't really given a chance. The AB's could have really used Ben Smith's kicking game on sunday morning. I also think Ben Smith is a safer bet as midfield cover than Toeava - less error prone.

Will be interesting to see what happens, if there are any suprises/shocks.

 

[Darwin]

Great post Larksea! I was considering starting a thread like this myself, but seeing as you've more or less summarised my thoughts you have saved my a lot of time!

Interestingly I'm picking exactly the same 30-man squad as you, with the outside backs the only really area that I'm not sure about.

In terms of the loose-forwards I do think they would benefit from a genuine backup 7 (I quite like Luke Braid at the moment, but Scott Waldrom and Matt Todd are other good options), but as you say it is probably too late for them to bring one in. I think Messem has done enough to beat off the challenge of Vito, but I'm still waiting for him to live up to his potential at test level.

In terms of outside backs I think (rightly or wrongly) Muliaina, Dagg, and Toeava are certainties, with Jane, Guildford, Gear and Sivivatu fighting for the remaining two spots. I would definately pick Jane, and I think he may have done enough in the first South Africa match to secure his spot. I would pick Guildford too, and I actually have a suspicion the AB's selectors will take him. He was included in the initial 30-man Tri-nations squad, and performed really well given his chances; the fact Guildford was not in the match-day 22 vs South Africa suggested he is either guaranteed a spot or is completely out of the picture (I'm hoping for the former). I don't think Gear did enough in his limited chances to secure a spot; he's a good player, but I don't think he is the sort of wing the current AB's coaches are looking for. Sivivatu is an really interesting one; the AB's selectors rate him highly so he may squeeze his way into the squad. I personally wouldn't pick him as I worry about his defence, his error rate, his fitness, and his ability to get through a game without getting injured.... there is not doubt that when he is fit and firing that Sivivatu is a gamebreaker, the problem is you don't really know whether you will get that Sivivatu or the slow, lazy, error prone player we saw for much of the Super Rugby season.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Has Sivivatu ever played poorly for the All Blacks? I don't recall a time... He wasn't great against the Barbarians, but he was playing centre for a large portion of that match

 

[Darwin]

Has Sivivatu ever played poorly for the All Blacks? I don't recall a time... He wasn't great against the Barbarians, but he was playing centre for a large portion of that match

Sivivatu hasn't had many poor games for the AB's. However before this season I can't recall him having many poor games for the Chiefs either. Apparently when the AB's entered the training camp he was hopelessly unfit (even more so than Weepu). The AB's selectors do rate him, so if he can prove that his fitness levels are good enough they may well pick him in the squad. I still think he has what it takes to be a quality international wing, so wouldn't be worried at all if he does get picked.

 

[Larksea]

yeah I agree darwin

It would have actually been good if they had added someone like Luke Braid to the initial squad and given them a go during the tri nations. But since Dan Braid is ruled out with injury the only experienced option has been thompson, and now they are stuck with him because anyone else they bring in will just be an unknown quantity until the quater finals and they can't afford to get it wrong there.

I think the big fact that NZ need to realise is that there is no magic solution if McCaw, Carter or Read get injured. Those three are the best players in the world for their positions. If the guys that come in are safe and work hard that's great, then it's upto other experienced players in the team to make up for the guy that's down.

But after that last game some serious questions have to be asked over thompson. Yes his workrate is impressive but giving away penalties like that is a bit of a no-no, if anything I hope he learns from that experience. The All Blacks defence was good, too good for the boks. They weren't a threat, so in my view it was not worth going for 50/50 turnovers and giving away penalties - you have to ask is he still the safe option? The best option is to be strong on defence and wait for a real chance. I also think Thompson tries to do too much as the tackler. It's best to have a go when you are the first to arrive.

So hard to call the wingers, though the easy thing for me is to rule Gear out as the only one not to have a very good performance with the chances he was given... And he was given more time than the others too.Also true the fact Guildford wasn't used in South Africa could be a sign he's a sure selection because of that great first test against the boks. And the fact he was in the first choice 30 and not as injury cover like Sivi & Jane.

Very very close call there.

One thing I would look to do as part as my first choice 22 players for the knock out stages is get both Kahui and Dagg involved That would mean starting one on the wing and the other in the 22 jersey. Maybe 11 Kahui, 14, Jane, 15 Mills, 22 Dagg.

 

[Shaggy]

I think the weekends test answered a few important questions and also left them with a couple of problems.

Props: Woodcock, B Franks, Owen Franks, John Afoa

Woodcock did enough, I think the All Blacks will miss crockett around the park though. His workrate around the park has been astonishing. The important thing is the Franks brothers, I very much believe they are the savior of NZ rugby. Owen Franks will be a tournament standout I think.

Hookers: Hore, Mealamu, Flynn

Too Late to make any changes though I honestly think Elliot is a better option than Flynn. Flynn does have more experience and that's what the coaches want in their backup man. Hore is currently #1 hooker in my book.

Locks: Thorn, Whitelock, Williams, Boric

Hoeata to make way for Boric.

Loosies: McCaw, Read, Kaino, Messam, Thompson

Thompson hasn't sealed the deal as a backup 7 but it's too late to bring someone else in now. Messam hasn't been at his best yet but he hasn't done anything wrong either. If anything he looks like a reliable backup option for 6/8 though he hasn't put as much pressure on kieran read, but he is the best 8 in the game - Shame he wasn't given a chance at 7 like thompson.

halfbacks: Weepu, Cowan, Elis

Too late to change, though I'd rather have someone else than Elis. The squad is commited to these three, just hope Elis isn't needed.

10: Carter, Slade

The fact that Cruden is tearing up ITM cup may have cast doubt in the minds of the All Black coaches but the reality is that if it was Cruden who thay had selected it would be Slade tearing up ITM cup right now with the one exception being goal kicking. Neither are proven goal kickers long term but Cruden clearly looks better right now in that area.

Midfield: Smith, nonu, Kahui, SBW

The first three have proven themselves. Some doubts over sonny bill but I still think he's the best option, too late to change. Though if nonu was injured it would be tempting to try kahui at 12 with smith at 13. It's a combination that has been talked about for a long time, would be interesting to see.

Wings: Jane, Guildford (Kahui & Dagg to cover)

Jane is currently the #1 IMO after being an outsider in the initial squad. But it's so tight that there is a chance even he won't make it. Out of the 6 wing options I rank Gear 6th, When it comes down to Sivivatu vs. Guildford I personally would pick Guildford. I don't believe he will have a bad game, his workrate is 2nd to none, he is a great counter attacker, links well with either Mills or Dagg and he also links very well with Dan Carter. Dan & Zac have a great combo in super rugby and it looks like it's the same in test rugby - Zac follows Dan around and things happen. But it just may be that Sivi get's the nod because of experience, it will also depend on how much his fittness has improved since the squad has been together.

Fullback: Mills, Dagg
Utility: Toeava

Pretty much a done deal Mils is an automatic selection and Dagg was good enough in the last game. Shame Ben Smith wasn't really given a chance. The AB's could have really used Ben Smith's kicking game on sunday morning. I also think Ben Smith is a safer bet as midfield cover than Toeava - less error prone.

Will be interesting to see what happens, if there are any suprises/shocks.

that's the 30 that I hope they'll pick, but I think they will pick Sivivatu over Guildford ... either way, on current form, the one that misses out, can consider themselves very unlucky

... gear probably hasn't done enough, but I would have been happy with any of those outside backs to be honest

 

[Larksea]

With the way things are right now if I was desperate for an openside flanker George Whitelock may not be a bad idea. Or maybe Scott Waldrum. More experienced options than Braid or Todd.

As far as sivi goes the Aussie game answered a lot of questions for him, he looked fast and he didn't look like he was in over his head. He actually looked like he had it over the Aussie backs. And the way he backed up conrad smith for that try was what Gear is missing in his game right now. But Guildford also did the same finishing off that Carter linebreak with awesome speed.

Heck Toss a coin, the final pick will take into account factors the public dont know about. Like Sivivatu's fittness state.

 

[nickdnz]

Same as Darwin, that's the exact squad I predict, however I think a specialist 7 may be included as they have indicated that they would not hesitate to take a specialist 7 is Thompson didn't cover the role well enough. It's not the squad I personally would pick, but I think it is a likely one. The only two positions that I think are up for grabs are Tony Woodcock or Wyatt Crockett and Adam Thompson/Matt Todd/Daniel Braid/Luke Braid. I think Guildford will get the spot. Gear didn't play to what he is capable in the last few games, so I can't see him getting in.

 

[Darwin]

Same as Darwin, that's the exact squad I predict, however I think a specialist 7 may be included as they have indicated that they would not hesitate to take a specialist 7 is Thompson didn't cover the role well enough. It's not the squad I personally would pick, but I think it is a likely one. The only two positions that I think are up for grabs are Tony Woodcock or Wyatt Crockett and Adam Thompson/Matt Todd/Daniel Braid/Luke Braid. I think Guildford will get the spot. Gear didn't play to what he is capable in the last few games, so I can't see him getting in.

If Dan Braid had been tearing it up for Auckland I reckon he would be in contention. The AB's selectors seem to rate him, and they know what he has to offer. Unfortunately he has struggled due to his neck injury, and he has now been ruled out for the remainder of the year with this injury.

 

[Shaggy]

If Dan Braid had been tearing it up for Auckland I reckon he would be in contention. The AB's selectors seem to rate him, and they know what he has to offer. Unfortunately he has struggled due to his neck injury, and he has now been ruled out for the remainder of the year with this injury.

Todd or G.Whitelock might be options as they are opensides that can also play blindside ... I'm a Sam Cane fan - he is great at the breakdown, and is a great prospect ... but as he's young and less experienced, and prospect for future cups I think

 

[nickdnz]

If Dan Braid had been tearing it up for Auckland I reckon he would be in contention. The AB's selectors seem to rate him, and they know what he has to offer. Unfortunately he has struggled due to his neck injury, and he has now been ruled out for the remainder of the year with this injury.

Damn, didn't realize he had another injury. The guys luck goes from bad to worse.

 

[Sneaki]

I'd pick the same squad but with Sivivatu in for Guildford. Not expecting Gear to make it unfortunately, and while Guildford is an excellent finisher, he doesn't have the same linebreaking/tackle busting ability as the other three and he's not as versatile as any of them really, making him a poor bench option. Personally I don't think they'll bring in a specialist 7, if they were going to try that they would've picked one in the tri-nations squad I reckon, too late for changes like that now, I guess Thomson or maybe Messam will get a crack in the RWC group stages against Japan/Canada.

 

[Muzzy]

interesting, i agree with larksea that boric should be ahead of hoeata, but idk if they'll pick him.

i'd go with the same team but with Sivivatu there instead of Kahui

 

[lance2010]

Props:Owen Franks,Ben Franks,Tony Woodcock,John Afoa

Hookers:Mealamu,Hore,Flynn

Locks:Thorn,Williams,Whitelock,Boric(if Fit,if not then Hoeata)

Loose Forwards:McCaw,Read,Kaino,Thomson,Vito

Half Backs:Weepu,Cowan,Ellis

1st fives:Carter,Slade

Midfield:Nonu,SBW,Smith,Kahui

Outside backs:Mils,Jane,Dagg,Sivivatu,Toeava

This is the 30 i think that will be picked i really want Guilford in there but i don't think the Coaches are going to rest Sivivatu just to drop him.
Toeava over Gear as Toeava can cover all 3 back positions and midfield if needed.
Vito in ahead of Messam.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Props:Owen Franks,Ben Franks,Tony Woodcock,John Afoa

Hookers:Mealamu,Hore,Flynn

Locks:Thorn,Williams,Whitelock,Boric(if Fit,if not then Hoeata)

Loose Forwards:McCaw,Read,Kaino,Thomson,Vito

Half Backs:Weepu,Cowan,Ellis

1st fives:Carter,Slade

Midfield:Nonu,SBW,Smith,Kahui

Outside backs:Mils,Jane,Dagg,Sivivatu,Toeava

This is the 30 i think that will be picked i really want Guilford in there but i don't think the Coaches are going to rest Sivivatu just to drop him.
Toeava over Gear as Toeava can cover all 3 back positions and midfield if needed.
Vito in ahead of Messam.

When I look at that squad i start to wonder where the versatility has gone in NZ.

Apart from Jane, Dagg, Muliana, Toeava and a little bit for nonu, most guys can only play one position. with this being said I regard flanker and no. 8 as that if you're a loose forward you're suppose to play both.

 

[ranger]

When I look at that squad i start to wonder where the versatility has gone in NZ.

Apart from Jane, Dagg, Muliana, Toeava and a little bit for nonu, most guys can only play one position. with this being said I regard flanker and no. 8 as that if you're a loose forward you're suppose to play both.

Ben Franks: 1 and 3
John Afoa: 3, has been known to cover 1 and 2
Jarrad Hoeata: 5, 6 has played quite a bit of 8 in ITM cup
(loose forwards don't count apparently, more on this later)
Piri Weepu: 9, 10
Dan Carter: 10, 12
Colin Slade: 10, 15, 11, 14
SBW: 12, 13
Richard Kahui: 13, 12, 11, 14
Sivivatu, 11, 14 played enough 15 at Super 14 to cover.

Jane, Dagg, Mills, Toeava, Nonu have been mentioned.

I don't think versatility is really an issue here?

As for loose forwards being expected to cover everything, really?

 

[Darwin]

When I look at that squad i start to wonder where the versatility has gone in NZ.

Apart from Jane, Dagg, Muliana, Toeava and a little bit for nonu, most guys can only play one position. with this being said I regard flanker and no. 8 as that if you're a loose forward you're suppose to play both.

I disagree.. Of the suggested squad the only backs that haven't played in a number of positions at test level are Cowan, Ellis, Conrad Smith, and Sivivatu (though he can play on both wings, and has played fullback at Super Rugby level). Kahui has started tests at on the wing and is more than capable at 12, Slade has started at 10, wing, and 15 at Super rugby level, while Dan Carter is more than capable at 10, 12 and even 15....

 

[Black Heart]

I agree with the original side but would add Matt Todd to the mix over Thomson/Messam.

 

[Black Heart]

I disagree.. Of the suggested squad the only backs that haven't played in a number of positions at test level are Cowan, Ellis, Conrad Smith, and Sivivatu (though he can play on both wings, and has played fullback at Super Rugby level). Kahui has started tests at on the wing and is more than capable at 12, Slade has started at 10, wing, and 15 at Super rugby level, while Dan Carter is more than capable at 10, 12 and even 15....

When was the last time Carter played 15 and for who?

Genuine question, I'm interested.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

When was the last time Carter played 15 and for who?

Genuine question, I'm interested.

He played fullback for either Canterbury of the Crusaders in a final, back in like 2004 So although that was a while ago, it was in a match of much importance.

That being said, I'm sure he could probably slip in to most positions and make a good fist of it...