All Blacks squad for the Rugby Championship

[Larksea]

On the Irish Tour Vito, Thomson and Messam all got a start and of them IMO Messam was the standout and I think Vito was the one who really failed to take that chance, sure he got injured but even before he went off he was ok at best. Thomson had a good showing too but I think in a way he failed to produce the physical edge at the advantage line the coaches/everyone were looking for though the other strengths he has are a real value in the right combination.

I see Vito's main role in the squad as backup #8 - this last year I believe has seen Vito Focus on #8 and Messam really focus on becoming a specialist 6

6: Messam, Thomson
7, McCaw, Cane
8, Read, Vito

time will tell and maybe a pecking order will be established, but I like the look of the above.


I'm also really looking forward to seeing Ben Smith get a run, of the guys selected for the back three I think he is the sure form player. I also think Gear will be in pretty good shape after a few weeks off.

 

[Darwin]

Here we go Darwin, Round 2
Richard Kahui is a centre out and out, yet gets picked on the wing for the All Blacks and does a splendid job at it. Cory Jane WAS a staunch fullback who the All Blacks used as a winger and has only until this year decided he is a winger.
The point I'm trying to make is that it's not the position the player is playing in that shows what they are made of, it is the calibre of the player. They are picked because they are good enough to be there and are expected to perform.

Yes, and Ben Smith has looked very classy in the few opportunities he has been given!

Not really relevant, but I don't think I would consider Kahui a centre 'out and out'. Yes centre is undoubtedly his preferred position, but he did play his entire debut Super Rugby season (2006) for the Highlanders on the wing!

Give Ben Smith more time and I have no doubt that he will perform, it's just that at the moment, you can't really oust other players based on Super Rugby form alone especially when they are proven at test level.

I'm not suggesting that they should drop Dagg altogether and exclusively play Ben Smith as their number 1 fullback, just that Smith deserves a chance to see whether he can transfer his outstanding Super Rugby form onto the test stage. Dagg has been underwhelming for the Crusaders this season, and was very quiet for the AB's versus Ireland - yes he had a couple of great games for the AB's last season, but he needs to show some form this season if he wants to keep his spot as the AB's first choice fullback!

We pretty much threw the 2011 Tri Nations away because of this experimenting you speak of

You know as well as I do that Rugby World Cup years are the exception to this rule

On the Irish Tour Vito, Thomson and Messam all got a start and of them IMO Messam was the standout and I think Vito was the one who really failed to take that chance, sure he got injured but even before he went off he was ok at best. Thomson had a good showing too but I think in a way he failed to produce the physical edge at the advantage line the coaches/everyone were looking for though the other strengths he has are a real value in the right combination.

I see Vito's main role in the squad as backup #8 - this last year I believe has seen Vito Focus on #8 and Messam really focus on becoming a specialist 6

6: Messam, Thomson
7, McCaw, Cane
8, Read, Vito

time will tell and maybe a pecking order will be established, but I like the look of the above.

I'm also really looking forward to seeing Ben Smith get a run, of the guys selected for the back three I think he is the sure form player. I also think Gear will be in pretty good shape after a few weeks off.

I don't think you can read that much into the loose-forwards performances in the Irish series. There is no doubt that Messam had a better performance than Thomson and Vito, but the overall team performance needs to be taken into account. The All Blacks were completely dominant in the third test, and all off the loose-forwards were outstanding, including a 20 year-old on his starting debut (Cane), and a player who had been poor in the previous two tests (McCaw). If Thomson or Vito had started at 6 in this test I have little doubt they would have had an outstanding match too. I think it is very harsh to suggest that Vito 'didn't take his chance' - I thought he looked very good in the 40-odd mins before going off in the first test, while Thomson was the pick of the loose-forwards (if not the entire forward pack) in the second test (but I personally wouldn't start him).

Though Messam has really improved his physicality lately he still runs far too much across the field for my liking. When he does run straight and hard he is very effective (as we saw at times in the final) - he just needs to focus more on doing this. Messam does break a lot of tackles by fending players off while running across the field, but he doesn't make the advantage line as regularly as Vito, who runs much straighter (and hence breaks the line more often). I certainly wouldn't be too bothered if Messam starts at 6 (as he warrants a start on form), but I think the selectors will give Vito the first shot at 6.

 

[Larksea]

I think if Vito or Thomson do get first start it will be more because they are fresh rather than form. Like the Irish series were Vito prob for the first start because Thomson needed a rest. Where now you have Messam who has had 4 finals intensity games in the last 5 weeks and Vito/Thomson have had the last 4-5 weeks off.

now obviously the chiefs/Messam will have parades, press and other things to deal with this weak

Going up against an Australian squad who has had very little involvement in the finals series and will be very fresh, I think the AB's will look to use their fresh players where they can with just 1 week off then into the Rugby Championship.

 

[Dizzy]

Yes, and Ben Smith has looked very classy in the few opportunities he has been given!

Not really relevant, but I don't think I would consider Kahui a centre 'out and out'. Yes centre is undoubtedly his preferred position, but he did play his entire debut Super Rugby season (2006) for the Highlanders on the wing!



I'm not suggesting that they should drop Dagg altogether and exclusively play Ben Smith as their number 1 fullback, just that Smith deserves a chance to see whether he can transfer his outstanding Super Rugby form onto the test stage. Dagg has been underwhelming for the Crusaders this season, and was very quiet for the AB's versus Ireland - yes he had a couple of great games for the AB's last season, but he needs to show some form this season if he wants to keep his spot as the AB's first choice fullback!



You know as well as I do that Rugby World Cup years are the exception to this rule

I don't think you give Dagg as much credit as he deserves, he has produced some real class in that All Black jumper and to say he has had a coupld good games is very short of what he really has done. I remember him coming off the bench in 2010 and scoring a magnificient try with little room down the short side, beating about 5 defenders in the 22 and scoring magnificiently.. Not to mention the game against Australia in last years semi.. From what I remember he was good against the Irish as well..

Lol... Yes there is an exception in World Cup year BUT!!!... with the Tri Nations having a history behind it and with it being the VERY LAST ONE, I think we should've fought for that trophy as hard as the next especially with it being the last time it would be up for grabs... My country dissapointed me at that tournament.

 

[Darwin]

I don't think you give Dagg as much credit as he deserves, he has produced some real class in that All Black jumper and to say he has had a coupld good games is very short of what he really has done. I remember him coming off the bench in 2010 and scoring a magnificient try with little room down the short side, beating about 5 defenders in the 22 and scoring magnificiently.. Not to mention the game against Australia in last years semi.. From what I remember he was good against the Irish as well..

Lol... Yes there is an exception in World Cup year BUT!!!... with the Tri Nations having a history behind it and with it being the VERY LAST ONE, I think we should've fought for that trophy as hard as the next especially with it being the last time it would be up for grabs... My country dissapointed me at that tournament.

I didn't say that though, did I

I believe I stated that he had a couple of great games for the AB's last season (the semi-final vs Australia that you have already mentioned, as well as the pool game vs France, and the match vs South Africa in South Africa all stand out to me). He was good in the first Irish test this year, poor in the second (and almost cost the AB's game by getting yellow carded), and quiet in the third. A solid enough performance from an AB's fullback? Yes. Good enough for him to be guaranteed the AB's 15 jersey all this season? No, not in my opinion.

There is no doubt that Dagg all the talent to nail down the AB's fullback for the next 5+ years, and could even go down as one of the greats (as he is phenomenal when on form). However, he needs still needs to cut down his error rate and perform more consistently, otherwise there are a number of NZ fullbacks that could pressure him for a starting spot....

 

[Amobokoboko]

Happy to see Messam in the squad. Pity Hika Elliot sn't there as a hooker. Especially as our hookers aren't getting younger. ( Already thinking about the next world cup)

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Personally, my top team would be:
1 Woodcock
2 Hore
3 Franks
4 Romano
5 Whitelock
6 Messam
7 McCaw
8 Read
9 Smith
10 Carter
11 Gear
12 Williams
13 Nonu
14 Jane
15 Dagg

16 Mealamu
17 Franks (or Faumauina, once he gets a few games)
18 Retalick
19 Cane
20 Weepu
21 Cruden
22 Smith

Once Conrad Smith is back and SBW leaves, you can move the midfield back to its normal state. I think Romano offers more at 4 than Retalick does, though any two of the three locks starting would be fine for me - especially as OZ/SA hardly have experienced combos at the moment. Give Dagg the 15 jersey, at least for now. Alternatively you can shift him onto the wing and put Smith in at fullback, which I think would be a solid back three for SA and ARG. Savea can get a run against OZ. With Cane on the bench the loose forward positions are all well covered. Messam to me is the best 6 option we have, at least at the moment.

 

[Larksea]

Going to be interesting to see where the pecking order is with Savea and Gear.

I think Gear is the safer option, he's obviously more experienced. But at the same time I hope they pick Savea because for him to improve he needs test experience. hard on gear but he's nearing the end of his carrier in terms of age for wingers and Savea is just beginning - you would have to think his potential is so much bigger. I'd like to see him given a chance to prove he's learned from the two Irish tests he got.

Also think Having Jane around will help savea.

 

[wangavegas1]

Hi guys just a small question but without knowing Sam Canes physical attributes he appears pretty lightweight for the openside role.......????

Other than that he appears to be a RM reincarnate right down to the way RM was a real tear away in his early years. You only need watch Richies first few test and then watch how SC plays and you see some great signs of another legend on the rise.

We have been blessed with some world class open side loosies in the last 20 years: Jones, Kronfield, Macaw and now Cane will hopefiully fill in some big boots.

The position of blind side or 6 loosie appears tyo have some depth at this stage until Kaino comes back.

A back up 8 is where we may struggle if Read continues to display worrying injury concerns and though RM fills in admirably he is still not a specialist 8

 

[wangavegas1]

Going to be interesting to see where the pecking order is with Savea and Gear.

I think Gear is the safer option, he's obviously more experienced. But at the same time I hope they pick Savea because for him to improve he needs test experience. hard on gear but he's nearing the end of his carrier in terms of age for wingers and Savea is just beginning - you would have to think his potential is so much bigger. I'd like to see him given a chance to prove he's learned from the two Irish tests he got.

Also think Having Jane around will help savea.

Can you allude to Gears age as I thought he was only 27 which is still pretty young?...............Saveawill get his time and II see the Argies and the EOYT where they will really blood him against the Scots, Welsh........Guilford will also come back into the fray at some stage as he is just to good a player not to.......

 

[wangavegas1]

Happy to see Messam in the squad. Pity Hika Elliot sn't there as a hooker. Especially as our hookers aren't getting younger. ( Already thinking about the next world cup)

Spot on mate but it does appear that Hansen is thinking ahead with both Hika and now Dan Coles being given squad time....I hope they take 32 man squad on the EOYT so that we may see 4 hookers and and extra lock taken....

 

[Ruckyou]

You would think Tameifuna would get the prop spot instead of Faumuina considering he played pretty much a full season, and performed above average. Compaired to Charlie being out majority of the season with injury, but i am a big fan of Charlie Faumuina and hope he gets a crack and produces something special.

Locks are concerning and its just fingers crossed ethier of the 3 while evolve into a world class player.

Race for the number 6 jersey will be interesting. No idea who they will favour, possibly Victor Vito.

Ker Barlow might feel hard done by. he came out firing after the snubbing from the Irish tests and backed it up with a Super15 ***le.

The backs are lethal, will tear any team to shreads, even without SBW

 

[Icemn]

i thin the AB backline will howhow struggle without SBW... ok maybe not struggle, but they will be less effective... any team will.. the man makes a huge impact...

i just love to see the wellington players in the backline

 

[Larksea]

Backline is a worry for me as well.

Few question marks over Carter but he always answers them, in particular with the All Blacks.

Weepu? pfft
Nonu - really hasn't had a great year, been selected on faith and he will need to repay it fast
Smith injured for a few weeks yet
Ellison - bit of an unknown quantity
Gear - not an established test player at 28, most wingers peak under 25
Savea - 2 tests
Dagg - form slump

Key for the all blacks really is for the forwards to dominate, that is the area where we have some form. If they do then the backs should get chances and if they take them then they will gain confidence

A lot falls on Carter and A Smith, time for Nonu's season to start and for Jane to hopefully bring his A game.

 

[tenpm]

I thought Nonu played very well in the Blues' last game against the Brumbies, though that seems like an age ago now!
True, the Blues as a whole were better in that game than they were all season, but since he's going to be playing with the other All Blacks instead of this year's Blues team (and under a different coach!), I'm not too worried about Nonu. Although, I haven't seen him at 13 and don't know how well that would work, if it were to happen.

 

[nickdnz]

Backline is a worry for me as well.
Few question marks over Carter but he always answers them, in particular with the All Blacks.
Weepu? pfft
Nonu - really hasn't had a great year, been selected on faith and he will need to repay it fast
Smith injured for a few weeks yet
Ellison - bit of an unknown quantity
Gear - not an established test player at 28, most wingers peak under 25
Savea - 2 tests
Dagg - form slump

Key for the all blacks really is for the forwards to dominate, that is the area where we have some form. If they do then the backs should get chances and if they take them then they will gain confidence

A lot falls on Carter and A Smith, time for Nonu's season to start and for Jane to hopefully bring his A game.

These two points I kind of disagree with.
1. Nonu really doesn't have to prove himself at all. For one he's a very established 12 and for another, with Sonny Bill Williams out, who is going to replace him? It's almost a one horse race, for as much as I like Bateman I don't think he's going to replace Nonu for a long while. Same goes with Crotty who is solid but never going to be a star.

2. While I agree he's not young, he's still very quick and can break tackles. He's over a year younger than Cory Jane and considerably quicker, so I don't think it's fair to label anyone past their best before they start showing signs of aging. With that said, I'd imagin Julian Savea will keep on improving to the point where he is better than an aging Gear, but probably not this series or even year.

 

[JG52Hummel]

I don't get the Weepu Choice over Kerr-Barlow. Piri has been having a rough spell with the Blues and I don't see how he will do better in RC... I believe that Barlow - Cruden is the ideal setup at the moment.

 

[Darwin]

I don't get the Weepu Choice over Kerr-Barlow. Piri has been having a rough spell with the Blues and I don't see how he will do better in RC... I believe that Barlow - Cruden is the ideal setup at the moment.

I think Weepu's experience is the main reason for his inclusion. Like you, I would have preferred Kerr-Barlow (or even Andy Ellis), but hopefully the selectors know what they are doing!

 

[dan the man]

Yeah, in my opinion Piri Weepu is the best all-round halfback on the planet - when he's at his best.

If Steve Hansen is able to get that out of him then his selection will be warranted. The same could be said about Nonu too.

 

[Tony Manx]

Yeah, in my opinion Piri Weepu is the best all-round halfback on the planet - when he's at his best.

You are very welcome to your opinion with which I beg to disagree.......................surely he is just there to lead the community singing before the match as no one else can remember the words?!!!