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All Blacks final World Cup squad?

Piutau has a better ability to drive in the tackle in my opinion, he's also less likely to get bundled out into touch because of his superior size. Remember, this will be tight play when we get to the tail end of the WC. Skudder is amazing, but I'm thinking along the lines of finals footy. Piutau has his strengths too, so to say he's "way better" is a bit over the top. Over the course of the Super Rugby season he was better defensively, and beat more defenders. Has to count for something right? His offloads were only 5 shy of Skudder's number, and he had played less time than NMS in a very crappy team.

Okay. But NMS have proved in the test matches that he is the in-form winger for NZ. Not even Savea performed better than him. So how do you warrant the inclusion of Piutau and Dagg over NMS???
 
Dagg for reasons listed on the previous page. Love it or hate it, I think that's what they'll do. I wouldn't lose any sleep if NMS got the nod over him though. I can understand arguments against Izzy. But - Dagg does have a couple of unique abilities that we'd miss out on. Piutau has a style of playing which I think would be more appropriate for finals rugby which I've already described. Frankly, when form alone comes into the equation then we start getting nut jobs who claim Julian Savea should be dropped after two quiet games. Not bad games. Just quiet. There's more ingredients in selections than that.

Of course, it's just my view and I could be wrong. If you guys can only pick up on one or two selections in the backline that you think are wrong then I can't be doing too bad overall! I look forward to reading other people's predictions.
 
For the record I'm Welsh but have seen the whole super season and all the tests. This is the squad I would pick personally with who I reckon Hansen will go for in brackets underneath.

Props - Tony Woodcock, Owen Franks, Ben Franks, Wyatt Crockett, Nepo Laulala
(Tony Woodcock, Owen Franks, Ben Franks, Wyatt Crockett, Nepo Laulala)

Hookers - Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Keven Mealamu
(Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Keven Mealamu)

Locks - Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano, Jeremy Thrush
(Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano)

Back Rowers - Richie McCaw (c), Kieran Read, Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Victor Vito
(Richie McCaw (c), Kieran Read, Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Victor Vito, Liam Messam)

Scrum-Halves - Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Tawera Kerr-Barlow
(Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara)

Outside Halves - Dan Carter, Colin Slade, Beauden Barrett
(Dan Carter, Colin Slade, Beauden Barrett)

Centres - Ma'a Nonu, Malakai Fekitoa, Conrad Smith, Ryan Crotty
(Ma'a Nonu, Malakai Fekitoa, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams)

Outside Backs - Ben Smith, Julian Savea, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Charles Piutau
(Ben Smith, Julian Savea, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Israel Dagg, Waisake Naholo)

Call me conservative but you need a pair of locks covering, as well as a third half back. Imagine you get to the semi final of the tournament and both Brodie Retallick & Sam Whitelock go down injured in the quarter final. They both fit to play in the final if it is made however. If you only have Romano there, you have to play either Kaino or Vito as your second lock or you have to replace one of Retallick and Whitelock in the squad such that they can't play the final. Would you want to go into a semi final with a makeshift second row pairing? And that would occur only because you decided to take Messam instead of Thrush.

Messam isn't going to play in the big games realistically. I'd put Vito in as first replacement for both the 6 and 8 positions. He's more disciplined, his physicality has picked up, he's skillful and he's a superb lineout operator. SO considering this, float these two situations. If you pick Messam and you lose both of your locks and have to go with a combination of 4. Romano, 5. Kaino. OR if you pick Thrush and you lose both say Kaino and Vito have you to go with a combination of 6. McCaw, 7. Cane, 8. Read. I'm pretty sure the latter situation would be much less disastrous than the former. Plus Thrush has proven himself on multiple occasions for the All Blacks. He is undervalued in my opinion.

It's the same with the two half backs. Imagine both Smith and Perenara go down and miss the semi but are back for the final and you haven't got Kerr-Barlow there - I'm not even a TKB fan but he's better than Ellis and the other boys are clearly not getting a look in. You can either replace one of them key players and have them miss the final or you pick Slade at 9, which is what is being touted. Not ideal scenarios. However like I said, I do think Hansen will go with 2 half backs and 3 locks.

As for the outside backs, Hansen has always backed Dagg and he seems to have a huge thing about Naholo - based on the media. I mean he did concoct a deal to get him out of going to Clermont Auvergne, even though the bloke was uncapped. I would go with Piutau because he's amazing defensively and has always played well for the All Blacks - never ever had a bad game for them. I still remember against Wales, that ball and all tackle he made on Sam Warburton when there was loads of blokes around in support. That kind of play could win a world cup and I doubt Dagg or Naholo would be able to do it. Plus Barrett and Slade can cover 15 so Dagg isn't needed. And we all remember what they did with Kahui four years ago. There's a possibility he'd use Fekitoa there if need be.

As for the centres, I'm so unconvinced by Sonny Bill. He got bullied against Wales by Jamie Roberts and he has never really be convincing against Australia or the Boks, whereas Fekitoa has been outstanding and Crotty is super reliable - like for like replacement for Conrad Smith. I know they won't pick him but I would.
 
As for the outside backs, Hansen has always backed Dagg and he seems to have a huge thing about Naholo - based on the media. I mean he did concoct a deal to get him out of going to Clermont Auvergne, even though the bloke was uncapped. I would go with Piutau because he's amazing defensively and has always played well for the All Blacks - never ever had a bad game for them. I still remember against Wales, that ball and all tackle he made on Sam Warburton when there was loads of blokes around in support. That kind of play could win a world cup and I doubt Dagg or Naholo would be able to do it. Plus Barrett and Slade can cover 15 so Dagg isn't needed. And we all remember what they did with Kahui four years ago. There's a possibility he'd use Fekitoa there if need be.

Yup. This paragraph is basically what I was trying to get at. Maybe I don't articulate it as well as other people, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks it. Piutau may not have had the try-scoring bananza that Skudder has had, and he may not be a specialist fullback like Dagg as such, but defensively he is very sound. I've been checking the numbers and it seems beating defenders is a strength of his. I think if anyone is to miss out, it won't be him I'm quite sure. People made out he's had one good game for the All Blacks when the squad were in South Africa and that's it. I guess they didn't watch his EOYT performances where many people sung his accolades at the time. He has the necessary physicality. As for Dagg, I also think Hansen will pick him. I'm not saying his form warrants it, but I'm trying to predict the coaches selections.

Locks - Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano, Jeremy Thrush
(Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano)

Only thing is, if they did go with 4 locks (and made Thrush the fourth) I'm not sure if he will be alright to play. I saw him go down with injury in the ITM. Anyone know what the verdict is with that?
 
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Yup. This paragraph is basically what I was trying to get at. Maybe I don't articulate it as well as other people, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks it. Piutau may not have had the try-scoring bananza that Skudder has had, and he may not be a specialist fullback like Dagg as such, but defensively he is very sound. I've been checking the numbers and it seems beating defenders is a strength of his. I think if anyone is to miss out, it won't be him I'm quite sure. People made out he's had one good game for the All Blacks when the squad were in South Africa and that's it. I guess they didn't watch his EOYT performances where many people sung his accolades at the time. He has the necessary physicality. As for Dagg, I also think Hansen will pick him. I'm not saying his form warrants it, but I'm trying to predict the coaches selections.



Only thing is, if they did go with 4 locks (and made Thrush the fourth) I'm not sure if he will be alright to play. I saw him go down with injury in the ITM. Anyone know what the verdict is with that?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...thrush-as-scans-reveal-low-grade-ankle-sprain

Read
 
Yeah I'm not understanding how he can think Dagg is a better choice than NMS..

Yeah, he's the only person on these boards who rates Dagg over NMS. Gave himself away again. He can't help himself.
 
Yeah, he's the only person on these boards who rates Dagg over NMS. Gave himself away again. He can't help himself.

Haha, I get some people will choose Pliutua over him, they just have different skill sets and are top of their game at different things, so thats just a matter of opinion, but dagg over NMS is dumb..
 
Not really. Like I've been saying, I think that is how Hansen will select. What part of that do you not understand?
 
Okay mate. You've obviously got a bit of a learning disability then. It's based on how I think the coaches might go. You realize I'm not the only one who posted that right?
 
it's clear I'm not Daggs biggest fan and I'm frustrated by his continued selection through a long period of patchy form but Dagg - Nehe is not a straight swap.

Dagg has much more experience and he's taller which is an advantage under the high ball. Fullback is seen as more of a critical specialist position. Dagg is seen as a fullback by the all blacks Nehe is seen more as a wing option at this stage, I think they would want him to have some more test experience before he is considered a fullback option.

WRC finals footy is an entirely different beast to anything else. I think it's less suited to the type of player NMS is right now.

I'm gutted Richard Kahui didn't come back. I see him as the bluprint for the ideal WC winger, genuinely tall, atheletic, when I say athletic I mean well above average, beast of a defender with the ability to cover multiple attackers, beast of a kick chaser, superb under the high ball, impressive punt and can create or finish trys. He was man of the match in his first test and never had a bad test. He's also intelligent and articulate.
 
Careful Larksea, they don't like talking in reason and facts. They obviously know the script and any suggestion otherwise isn't welcome! Not saying he's the best player going around but like you said, I think they'll want at least one other specialist. Experience also comes into it. Of course, I could be wrong but that's just my thoughts.
 
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You might as well take a 30 man squad If your going to take Dagg, he's been poor in and out of an AB shirt, just a wasted pick in my eyes.. Scudder offers so much more, he is a FB don't forget and had no problems under the high balls, You clearly haven't been watching the season.. Just go on YouTube and type in Scudder, get some popcorn, tell girlfriend to sit in a room quietly for 10 minutes and watch NMS..
 
Have you watched Skudder at all?? He's been in way better form than Piutau. He has also bumped opposition players off like Piutau. And Nehe has an awesome name too...


He busted the Wallabies open to score two tries in Sydney and could easily have created two more, and then busted them open again and delivered an audacious "round the corner" offload to set up Aaron Smith's penalty try in Auckland. He has bean beating players straight up for the whole Super Rugby season. The really scary thing (for opponents) about NMS is that he appear to play the international game the same way he plays Super Rugby. He's been in great form all season and I have no doubt he will be on the plane.
 
You might as well take a 30 man squad If your going to take Dagg, he's been poor in and out of an AB shirt, just a wasted pick in my eyes.. Scudder offers so much more, he is a FB don't forget and had no problems under the high balls, You clearly haven't been watching the season.. Just go on YouTube and type in Scudder, get some popcorn, tell girlfriend to sit in a room quietly for 10 minutes and watch NMS..

I think the backs that really only play in one position, are going to be the ones that miss out, so Dagg and Sopoaga will probably not make it ... there's really only room for one specialist in the outside backs, and that's likely to be Savea. NMS probably will get named in the squad, and get some game time at FB in one of the pool games, Piutau will also probably make it, and get game time on both wings during the tournament, Ben Smith will be the first choice FB, but can be used as injury cover for the wings also ... it will be interesting to see if they gamble on Naholo or not, I'd like to see him there, but whether you take a specialist right wing that can't play until the third game ... might be better to take someone else, and send him to ITM cup, but have him on speed dial, should one of the others go down with a serious injury
 
You might as well take a 30 man squad If your going to take Dagg, he's been poor in and out of an AB shirt, just a wasted pick in my eyes.. Scudder offers so much more, he is a FB don't forget and had no problems under the high balls, You clearly haven't been watching the season.. Just go on YouTube and type in Scudder, get some popcorn, tell girlfriend to sit in a room quietly for 10 minutes and watch NMS..

Lol. you seem to be under the impression that I don't think he's any good whatsoever. Which is not the case at all. You are misrepresenting what is being said. Quit being so offended that not everyone thinks like you. Same to Kiwi, who is quite well known for talking a load of old twaddle. To the 'ignore' list for both of you I think.
 
Lol. you seem to be under the impression that I don't think he's any good whatsoever. Which is not the case at all. You are misrepresenting what is being said. Quit being so offended that not everyone thinks like you. Same to Kiwi, who is quite well known for talking a load of old twaddle. To the 'ignore' list for both of you I think.

You need to add SC and shaggy to your ignore list also :/
I just have a difference in opinion, your going to have pretty big ignore list on these forums if you can't take a bit argument and trust me I am one of the tamer arguers on here..
But whatever, done now..
 
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I really honestly don't care if you think I talk "twaddle". I've more often than not proved you wrong on many accounts MotherRucker1 (McFadden, what is this your 500th account?), you literally went mad last time I was right saying NMS would get All Black caps this season and probably make the plane, also when I called Kaino out in Australia and that he should not start in Auckland. People here just seem to get agitated when their favourite player is called out and they're yet again wrong. Same happened with Savea, who is obviously off the pace yet people can't handle it when the truths said.

Stop hanging on to your player preferences if you want to be taken seriously, because it's blatantly obvious with suggestions Jane should go over Piutau that it's player favoritism or that Dagg has been anywhere near NMS level this year. I will admit it's kind of hard to say if Dagg will go or not because of specialized fullback reasons, but the deserved contending outside backs are undoubtedly Piutau and NMS.


Read this article about Savea

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11493121

Then maybe stop patronizing people and claiming they're talking "twaddle".
 
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