A Political Thread

[Which Tyler]

Former PM Theresa May warned the change could damage "trust" in the UK over future trade deals with other states.

That ship sailed a long time ago

 

[fattyforward]

Northern Ireland Secretary admits new bill will 'break international law'

Brandon Lewis says a new post-Brexit law will go against agreements in a "specific and limited way".

www.bbc.co.uk

Pretty mad when you think about it.

Shameful if they actually do it, puerile if it's just sabre-rattling blather. Either way, pretty self-defeating if you're serious about good trade deals. Whatever happened to "speak softly and carry a big stick". We seem to be in a time of shout loudly and act like a clown with a balloon on a stick.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Convenient of the government to announce the new "no more than 6" guidelines, 5 days early, at the same time as the above article...almost as if they're trying to bury the headline

 

[fattyforward]

I think the brexit law was designed to detract from covid and set a trap for Starmer. He can't avoid law breaking like he has every other brexit issue this year and Cummings wants to refocus on Brexit, where Starmer is vulnerable in many seats. Shows how poor they are to do this nonsense 9 months into an 80 seat majority parliament. Effective politics but bloody dreadful governing. The Tories are not what they used to be ... the leadership isn't even conservative in the traditional sense. Just populist approval seekers.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think the brexit law was designed to detract from covid and set a trap for Starmer. He can't avoid law breaking like he has every other brexit issue this year and Cummings wants to refocus on Brexit, where Starmer is vulnerable in many seats. Shows how poor they are to do this nonsense 9 months into an 80 seat majority parliament. Effective politics but bloody dreadful governing. The Tories are not what they used to be ... the leadership isn't even conservative in the traditional sense. Just populist approval seekers.

I remember the days when the right wing were simply people with different policy positions that I thought were generally pretty selfish but not complete lunatics. This strain (stain) of right-wing populism that has hit Brazil, UK and USA in particular is a whole new level. It is utterly devoid of integrity, extremely destructive and goes out of its way to create hate and division. It seems people really do not learn from history.

 

[Reiser99]

I remember the days when the right wing were simply people with different policy positions that I thought were generally pretty selfish but not complete lunatics. This strain (stain) of right-wing populism that has hit Brazil, UK and USA in particular is a whole new level. It is utterly devoid of integrity, extremely destructive and goes out of its way to create hate and division. It seems people really do not learn from history.

Disagree slightly. People do learn from history, but not enough. Many of the people voting have little to no detailed knowledge of how the likes of Hitler rose to power. They don't want to know even when you show them proof. All they care about is themselves and they see these leaders as giving them what they want. I said before it's a belief not a view or opinion, it's far stronger. If we have another American Civil War with Trump emerging as the victor and dictator in chief (Tbh he's more likely to create a dynasty like the Roman empire tbh) then many people will say I told you so. I know it's incredibly unlikely, but all the signs are there for those who are knowledgeable enough that something terrible could happen.

 

[ncurd]

Certainly from a English late-90's education whilst obviously we studied WW1 and WW2 it certainly focused far more on an international perspective outside looking in than actual domestic issue within Germany. It basically boiled down to we shafted them after WW1 which led them to a position where Hitler said he'll make them great again and then boom invasion of Poland. The level of complexity is certainly simplified to a huge degree and nothing about how he went about it. Most of that I've learnt through other means of learning over the years. The major issue is what do you teach in the limited time you have....although I'd certainly suggest country houses, French Revolution & the American West whilst interesting weren't as useful (American West is great as it did teach the reality rather than romanticism but I'd of been better served learning British colonialism rather than American).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

America now saying that they'll refuse to do a deal with us if we do what we're planning on doing RE: Northern Ireland

#OvenReady

 

[McTallshort]

Disagree slightly. People do learn from history, but not enough. Many of the people voting have little to no detailed knowledge of how the likes of Hitler rose to power. They don't want to know even when you show them proof. All they care about is themselves and they see these leaders as giving them what they want. I said before it's a belief not a view or opinion, it's far stronger. If we have another American Civil War with Trump emerging as the victor and dictator in chief (Tbh he's more likely to create a dynasty like the Roman empire tbh) then many people will say I told you so. I know it's incredibly unlikely, but all the signs are there for those who are knowledgeable enough that something terrible could happen.

There are similarities between Hitler and Trump's rise to power with the main one being a lack of a credible alternative. The Wehmiar republic was weak and the general population had no trust in it. It was failing badly and rife with corruption. Hitler sold himself as a man of the people who would bring order to Germany and give them jobs etc. The fact that he wasn't an established member of the political class helped him.

Fast forward to 2016 and you have on one hand an absolute establishment candidate in Hilary Clinton who is fully paid up lobbyist and happy to keep pursuing the wars that all the previous Presidents had started and then some and on the other you have someone who can distance themselves from any previous political messes, wants to end wars of intervention (although this in hindsight didn't happen) and threatens to shake the political establishment up.

Until there is a viable alternative to populist nationalism then it will always come out on top because its a very easy sell. Trump is not the problem he is just the symptom. The problem is the American democratic party is not a party of the progressive left, it will not push for things such as universal healthcare, gun control or criminal reform. Biden passed the crime bill that pushed the US into having the biggest prison population in the world, Harris not only locked up the parents of truant kids she also blocked the use of DNA evidence in a death row trial just to keep her 100% conviction rate as state prosecutor. These people are not much better than Trump but pretend they are and people are now seeing through it. The biggest voter block in the US are the people who don't vote (100 million in the last election) this shows that the political system if failing and only appealing to people on the margins. While this is going on you will get leaders like Trump.

 

[ncurd]

One of the the things I don't understand with our editing the withdrawal agreement is how we honestly think anyone will think this government will behave on any subsequent deal with any other country. It's not just torpedoing relations with the EU and thus causing greater economic woe because if you add more red tape in any form it's going to cost the economy that pretty basic stuff.

I hope this is simple brinkmanship to try to force their hand other something else but it's not a good look.

 

[Gavin]

One of the the things I don't understand with our editing the withdrawal agreement is how we honestly think anyone will think this government will behave on any subsequent deal with any other country. It's not just torpedoing relations with the EU and thus causing greater economic woe because if you add more red tape in any form it's going to cost the economy that pretty basic stuff.

I hope this is simple brinkmanship to try to force their hand other something else but it's not a good look.

I definitely think it is some sort of d*ck swinging attempt by the UK government, in an attempt to frighten the EU with potential checks between NI and ROI. It pushes the narrative that the Brits are standing up to the unfair EU which goes well with their Brexit voting base and ERG.

The knock-on effect in Northern Ireland is that now there are arguements between the ports authorites and the environment minister Edwin Poots who claims there is no point spending public money on the expansion of the facilities because the Brits now claim there'll be no checks between NI and GB (even though they said that before).

Add to that the cheering from the rafters about the UK - Japan deal (only in principle), which is a diversion tactic

 

[Reiser99]

I definitely think it is some sort of d*ck swinging attempt by the UK government, in an attempt to frighten the EU with potential checks between NI and ROI. It pushes the narrative that the Brits are standing up to the unfair EU which goes well with their Brexit voting base and ERG.

The knock-on effect in Northern Ireland is that now there are arguements between the ports authorites and the environment minister Edwin Poots who claims there is no point spending public money on the expansion of the facilities because the Brits now claim there'll be no checks between NI and GB (even though they said that before).

Add to that the cheering from the rafters about the UK - Japan deal (only in principle), which is a diversion tactic

The Japanese deal is also no better than if we had stayed in the EU.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Only thing I'm interested in with the Japanese deal is apparently the visa process is being simplified - so I can GTFO this sinking ship

 

[Gavin]

The Japanese deal is also no better than if we had stayed in the EU.

And Liz Truss didn't get the cheese deal she was harping on about a while back

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Only thing I'm interested in with the Japanese deal is apparently the visa process is being simplified - so I can GTFO this sinking ship

My feeling also TBH.

 

[Yulia]

One of the the things I don't understand with our editing the withdrawal agreement is how we honestly think anyone will think this government will behave on any subsequent deal with any other country. It's not just torpedoing relations with the EU and thus causing greater economic woe because if you add more red tape in any form it's going to cost the economy that pretty basic stuff.

I hope this is simple brinkmanship to try to force their hand other something else but it's not a good look.

I wonder if you have to change passports after Brexit? Is it written somewhere in it that it's a EU passport?

 

[McTallshort]

Only thing I'm interested in with the Japanese deal is apparently the visa process is being simplified - so I can GTFO this sinking ship

Guessing you might have to quarantine when you get there

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I wonder if you have to change passports after Brexit? Is it written somewhere in it that it's a EU passport?

At the very top it says "European Union" but it's a British passport, not a European one. I don't think there will be any need to change, people will simply get the updated one when they come round to getting a new passport. They wouldn't be able to handle the surge of new passport applications, plus it is a kick in the teeth considering passports are pricey. Mine isn't due for renewal for a few years for example.

 

[ncurd]

I was quite happy to renew mine a couple years back and keep my Burgundy passport for as long as possible.

 

[Reiser99]

I was quite happy to renew mine a couple years back and keep my Burgundy passport for as long as possible.

I still find it hilarious that the new ones are being made by a french company.