A Political Thread pt. 2

[Saintjay]

Unfortunately I don't think any Tory/Labour party leader is going to raise it until they know the polling data shows sustained majority support and they're willing to put their political career on the line by campaigning to re-join. We already hear the Tories accusing Starmer of moving towards freedom of movement which is likely to be an attack line when they're in opposition.

Not sure what current polling shows but I heard the chairman of Asda say that at least 2% of those who voted to leave in 2016 will have now died and been replaced by a new wave of young voters who would be pro re-join.

I don't think Starmer can risk red wall seats by questioning Brexit. Sadly it's not worth the political risk currently. I wish Starmer had the courage as a remainer to say why and argue that case.

I was reading the EU were saying that freedom of movement is a red line for any re-negotiation on trade etc.
Labour's current stance is they are not moving on freedom of movement. Someone or something will have to give if things are going to change.

 

[ncurd]

I think were 1-2 election before a sensible discussion on Brexit.

You only have to look how Sunak pounced on the last debate to any suggestion Starmer could get a better deal with EU.

 

[General Melchett]

I'd be interested to know if the Brexit agreement had any rejoining clauses on currency etc. because the question about keeping the pound will be key.

Personally I think there first needs to be a movement built up of pro rejoiners including business leaders, young people and anyone influential in the media before Labour start to get involved. Lessons need to be learned from 2016 when arguments made by Cameron just didn't cut it. If Labour leave it too long they risk it turning into a protest vote against them. I suspect we'll end up with a closer relationship with the EU but with a watered down version of freedom of movement being rebadged as something else.

 

[ncurd]

I'd be interested to know if the Brexit agreement had any rejoining clauses on currency etc. because the question about keeping the pound will be key.

Personally I think there first needs to be a movement built up of pro rejoiners including business leaders, young people and anyone influential in the media before Labour start to get involved. Lessons need to be learned from 2016 when arguments made by Cameron just didn't cut it. If Labour leave it too long they risk it turning into a protest vote against them. I suspect we'll end up with a closer relationship with the EU but with a watered down version of freedom of movement being rebadged as something else.

Any agreement to rejoin must be purely as new member state. Schengen and Currency have to be agreed to, no rebate either.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I was reading that For the EU even to consider rejoining they want both major parties fully committed and polling to point to at least 60% of the electorate in favour of rejoining. I can't see we are anywhere near that at present. Always thought if it took us 40 years to leave the EU then it will take another 40 years to see what a disaster Brexit was and rejoin (hope I am wrong and it is sooner). And of course as Ncurd points out those rebates etc would no longer be available - nor should they be.

 

[General Melchett]

I was reading that For the EU even to consider rejoining they want both major parties fully committed and polling to point to at least 60% of the electorate in favour of rejoining. I can't see we are anywhere near that at present. Always thought if it took us 40 years to leave the EU then it will take another 40 years to see what a disaster Brexit was and rejoin (hope I am wrong and it is sooner). And of course as Ncurd points out those rebates etc would no longer be available - nor should they be.

I don't blame them. Last thing they want is to admit a new member that is bitterly divided with one main political party constantly bashing the EU. The 2016 referendum should have required 60% for us to leave in the first place.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Desperate letter I received from the Tory party. Basically a future letter from myself.

 

[ncurd]

I don't blame them. Last thing they want is to admit a new member that is bitterly divided with one main political party constantly bashing the EU. The 2016 referendum should have required 60% for us to leave in the first place.

I think a 66% super majority should always been required. And a lesson learned for any future referendums of significant change to economic impact of the country.

Note when we first voted to energy the EEC should of seen similar requirements. Which would of passed at 67%

 

[Reiser99]

Nope, seems like the Conservative supreme court justices are quite happy to let the president be a dictator.

 

[ncurd]

Nope, seems like the Conservative supreme court justices are quite happy to let the president be a dictator.

Have you actually read what they've said. He can't be prosecuted for official acts but can be for unofficial acts.

Basically he's immune from anything in discharging the powers of his office but he isn't immune from say say tax evasion or trying to rig an election.

 

[Reiser99]

Have you actually read what they've said. He can't be prosecuted for official acts but can be for unofficial acts.

Basically he's immune from anything in discharging the powers of his office but he isn't immune from say say tax evasion or trying to rig an election.

Yes, but official acts seems to be a very ambiguous term. I'm pretty sure they said that him asking Mike Pence not to ratify the last election results counted as an official act. The suggestion also seems to be that if he orders the military to do some illegal while president that counts as an 'official act'.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's also been pushed back down to the lower courts to decide what these unofficial acts are with some guidance. Bottom line the prosecution case just got a lot harder and it's unlikely to happen this side of November.

Ridiculous that inciting a crowd can count as coming as an official act. Unsurprisingly, The 6-3 vote was also split along conservative-liberal lines.

 

[ncurd]

Ridiculous that inciting a crowd can count as coming as an official act.

But they haven't actually havnt said that have they?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

But they haven't actually havnt said that have they?

Live updates: Trump has some immunity from prosecution, Supreme Court rules

The decision means the January 6 case will return to a lower court, likely further delaying the former president's election interference trial.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently they did say his speech, including tweets beforehand were part of his official act as POTUS.

 

[ncurd]

Live updates: Trump has some immunity from prosecution, Supreme Court rules

The decision means the January 6 case will return to a lower court, likely further delaying the former president's election interference trial.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently they did say his speech, including tweets beforehand were part of his official act as POTUS.

Thats madness....seriously as is encouraging Mike Pence not to discharge his official acts.

I agree mostly with their other positions.

 

[Which Tyler]

Desperate letter I received from the Tory party. Basically a future letter from myself.

"Still, given how many people voted for Reform, I thought we'd at least get a hearing, people like us. I thought our values would still have to be listened to. But it didn't happen like that at all."

So if Reform hit their predicted 16% or so, they should be listened to.
But Remainers who did hit 48%, shouldn't have any say whatsoever, and indeed, should be purged from the Conservative Party in 2019.

And... does that "letter" mean that the tories are now in favour of electoral reform? as in, moving towards PR, not moving towards ever increasing disenfranchisement.

As an aside, I kinda hope that letter from future self is accurate in its depiction of the next 20 years. That'd be nice.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Letter just stinks of Project Fear. Like Tories can talk after their 80 seat majority last time around. FWIW I would never vote Reform, so their targeting of me just left me thinking WTF?

Had my name And address at the top of the letter, which they got from the electoral roll. Needless to say I got straight onto their website for my details to be removed.

 

[Amiga500]

Have you actually read what they've said. He can't be prosecuted for official acts but can be for unofficial acts.

Basically he's immune from anything in discharging the powers of his office but he isn't immune from say say tax evasion or trying to rig an election.

If Trump had a republican house and senate he now has the power to ensure there would never be another election - or if he couldn't push that far - then a Democrat party to oppose him.

 

[Saintjay]

I don't blame them. Last thing they want is to admit a new member that is bitterly divided with one main political party constantly bashing the EU. The 2016 referendum should have required 60% for us to leave in the first place.

Well they now have France instead.

 

[ncurd]

If Trump had a republican house and senate he now has the power to ensure there would never be another election - or if he couldn't push that far - then a Democrat party to oppose him.

How?