A Political Thread pt. 2

[General Melchett]

Very WW1 rapid escalation vibes on the precipice if that happens (which I don't think it will), as Russia would almost certainly be dragged in too

Are Russia in a position to get that invested in this? Fighting a war on multiple fronts is a losing game. They're struggling in Ukraine as it is and the Wagner snake has had its head chopped off.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Are Russia in a position to get that invested in this? Fighting a war on multiple fronts is a losing game. They're struggling in Ukraine as it is and the Wagner snake has had its head chopped off.

I don't see what choice they'll have, even by proxy, to be involved in some manner. They simply can't afford to lose their ME foothold for good, whilst it is already being chipped away at by China

 

[Saintjay]

Are Russia in a position to get that invested in this? Fighting a war on multiple fronts is a losing game. They're struggling in Ukraine as it is and the Wagner snake has had its head chopped off.

Difficult to see them being that stupid or do any thing direct. I'm assuming any Russian direct involvement against Israel would require a US response.

Any loss of US lives to Russia would mean Russian forces in the Ukraine become fair game. Personally i think that would/could then involve Nato. I don't think they'd sit back and let the US and Russia have at it like the Falklands war.

Any escalation involving the loss of Russian or US forces because of one or other regardless of the theatre would scare me to death on where the world goes next. People also forget that it has long been assumed Israel has a nuclear arsenal.

 

[McTallshort]

Are Russia in a position to get that invested in this? Fighting a war on multiple fronts is a losing game. They're struggling in Ukraine as it is and the Wagner snake has had its head chopped off.

Wagner's head was chopped off but a previous commander has been reappointed and their operations in Africa and the Middle East continue as before

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

"False fear" is clearly very real fear

 

[McTallshort]

I understand people struggling to have sympathy with Israel because I absolutely am but let's take a step back here and understand what's really happening:

Iran (with Russian help) are trying to destabilise Israel and instigate a conventional or even nuclear showdown with them. This has always been Iran's goal and they have said it many times. Using Hamas to get this right wing, reactionary and nationalist Israeli government all angry and vengeful is IMO just a stepping stone to all out war with Israel and even Saudi Arabia. I have a very big hunch that in return for the vast amount of Drones and 100mm Ammo the Iranians gave to Russia, Russia have supplied them with some nuclear weapons as Russia has nothing else Iran wants. Things just got very dark

 

[Reiser99]

Captain Tom's daughter defends decision to keep book profits

The family tells TalkTV the books were nothing to do with charity fundraising.

www.bbc.co.uk

Congratulations on completely trashing your father's legacy. How can you have this
"Astonishingly at my age, with the offer to write this memoir I have also been given the chance to raise even more money for the charitable foundation now established in my name.
"Its goals are those closest to my heart, with a mission to combat loneliness, support hospices and help those facing bereavement... I am deeply honoured to be given yet another opportunity to serve the country of which I am so very proud."
written in the prologue and then say there was never an intention to give the money to the charity. People will have bought that book expecting the profits to go to charity. What a greedy, disgusting family.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Israel want 1.1m Palestinians to move from North Gaza to South Gaza in the next 24 hours, to find 150 of their hostages which their Government and security forces failed to protect to begin with. And they are accusing the UN's statement to rescind this as shameful.

 

[Gavin]

First western leader to condemn some of the actions of Israel

Top lad

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Fair play Leo. Can't fault his foreign policy regardless of the rest.

 

[Gavin]

If true, this is again unacceptable by Israel

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Israel's "right to defend itself" is not murdering innocent civilians in occupied territory. World powers need to condemn this.

This is genocide.

 

[Which Tyler]

Yep
Hamas - bad
Israel - also bad

So many people seem to be forgetting that two things can both be true; that to condemn one isn't to excuse the other.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

If verified, absolutely should be condemned.

The response will be, and this is a hard question to answer - what is proportionate retaliation for Hamas's attack?

As always, Hamas are using the people of Gaza as human shields. Ultimately, this is their goal fulfilled, they set up militarily in hospitals, schools, mosques and homes, this is always going to be the end result in that case unfortunately.

 

[Which Tyler]

Israel usually considers an indiscriminate death rate of around 20:1 to be "proportionate"
Personally, I think that "we're (intending to be) more evil than you" is a pretty bad message; and I wouldn't say that war crimes and crimes against humanity are ever excusable - even if in response to war crimes and crimes against humanity (where, I guess "proportionate" is the right word).

To answer your question though - if any of us had any answers, we'd already be holding Nobel peace prizes, and be too busy to be posting on a rugby forum during this crisis.

 

[Yulia]

they set up militarily in hospitals, schools, mosques and homes

Yes, it's a popular tactic unfortunately. Not only Hamas uses it.

 

[McTallshort]

I think Israel's response is more to do with its intelligence failings than what Hamas have actually done. They have been made to look a bit stupid so they feel the need to show the Israeli population they are back in control

 

[Saintjay]

In theory both sides should abide by the rules of war. Historically a problem for nation states who are meant to abide by this when faced with extremists, freedom fighters or terrorists who don't follow these rules.

Both sides are most likely in breach of the rules and the Geneva convention. Taking hostages, cutting off water etc. The power impalance, military or politicaly doesn't give anyone an exception to this. Neither side are in the right now and nobody can justify there actions. "We are oppressed " "Well we are defending ourselves" doesn't cut it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

In theory both sides should abide by the rules of war. Both sides are most likely in breach of this and the Geneva convention. Taking hostages, cutting off water etc. The power impalance, military or politicaly doesn't give anyone an exception to this. Neither side are in the right now and nobody can justify there actions. "We are oppressed " "Well we are defending ourselves" doesn't cut it.

Unfortunately it seems both sides are led by extreme groups. Until the palastines move away from Hamas and there ideology and Israel move away from the right then peace won't happen. That's not factoring places like Syria who are sworn enemies of Israel and in theory at war. Getting that side of things resolved as well is difficult. Probably an impossible task sadly.

There's actually more of an obligation on Israel to abide by the rules of war. HAMAS are a dissident terrorist force, Israel are a state involved in international agreements and trade.

The lack of pressure on Israel to, first of all create a peaceful zone and secondly find a solution is deplorable. This sort of appeasement led to WWII and has gone beyond the point of return at this point.

I think this will more or less result in a successful genocide as the world sits idly by. It will be the shame of our lifetime.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think Israel's response is more to do with its intelligence failings than what Hamas have actually done. They have been made to look a bit stupid so they feel the need to show the Israeli population they are back in control

They are acting on emotion (understandable) but it's going to get bloody worse and create more death, destruction and in turn anger and hatred hence the never-ending vicious cycle. It's the collective punishment of 2.3m Palestinians which I find objectionable.

To answer your question though - if any of us had any answers, we'd already be holding Nobel peace prizes, and be too busy to be posting on a rugby forum during this crisis.

At least we can comment dispassionately unless Jewish or Palestinian.