A Political Thread pt. 2

[BrokenWing]

I'd be useless in a jury. I still haven't sussed out Bruce Willis is a ghost.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Fresh people.

The Grand Jury is a waste of time, they just decide if there is a case to answer. The attorneys office should be able to determine that and be sacked if they are **** at it.

Although I guess its what happens when you politicise judicial appointments (both judges and attorneys).

Grand jury is usually just one unlucky attorney reading all the charges for that cycle and why they should be brought while a bunch of people just agree. Very rarely will they question a charge. If a jurisdiction is constantly running into problems getting them approved then the next election should be rough.

 

[Amiga500]

Vengeance =/= justice

Ah dunno. That's your opinion, and given the continued slide in social behaviour, one could argue the current system doesn't provide sufficient deterrent.

And back to Ncurd's point about 10% being wrongfully convicted.

The proportion of the 10% that give lip to the victims families is going to be an incredibly small subset.

 

[ncurd]

Ah dunno. That's your opinion, and given the continued slide in social behaviour, one could argue the current system doesn't provide sufficient deterrent.

Violent crime is down from the mid 90's but plateued for the last decade.

Deterrents by being "tough on crime" have been statistically proven time and time again to have zero impact on crime rates.

 

[SG59_]

A lot of crime is no longer reported or recorded due to the gov changing the parameters of what is a crime the police should bother with.

I think someone needs to steal over £100+ from a shop before the police do anything now.

Many don't even bother reporting the crime I suspect as the police don't do anything about it. I once saw someone try to use an angle grinder midday to steal a catalytic converter. The owner called the police and told the crook, but he just casually got up and walked away like nothing happened.

This lack of action has probably lead to an increase in chancers and vandalism because they know they'll get away with it.

 

[Amiga500]

Deterrents by being "tough on crime" have been statistically proven time and time again to have zero impact on crime rates.

Pretty hard to reoffend if your spending the rest of your life in jail or have been sentenced to death.

Tough on crime would involve making jail a deterrent, not a training centre.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Pretty hard to reoffend if your spending the rest of your life in jail or have been sentenced to death.

Tough on crime would involve making jail a deterrent, not a training centre.

Jails aren't deterrents except for people who aren't really criminals and don't really want to commit crimes in the first place. The "tough on crime" thing is a pure fantasy created solely to be used in conjunction with painting someone else as therefore "weak". Statistically prison systems that are geared heavily towards reforming criminals and only punishing the lost causes perform vastly better and cost a lot less than the "tough on crime" systems. The issue is it is sold to people as rewarding crime or some other ******** so it tugs at the sense of injustice and gets people all enraged.

 

[SG59_]

Pretty hard to reoffend if your spending the rest of your life in jail or have been sentenced to death.

Tough on crime would involve making jail a deterrent, not a training centre.

Private Eye did an investigation into American people who received the death penalty and many of which were later found innocent.

There's also the risk of creating martyrs.

The system does need changing, but I'm not sure what would work. I think in Norway they're used for rehabilitation mostly (training, education, psychological help etc) and it seems to work. However, I have heard the numbers are misleading due to some creative reporting.

I think the police actually patrolling streets more would act as a good deterrent. It would stop the chancers at least.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

There seems little community policing anymore due to cut backs. Police now have a mentality of if they can't prosecute and take it to court then it's not worth their while.

 

[SG59_]

There seems little community policing anymore due to cut backs. Police now have a mentality of if they can't prosecute and take it to court then it's not with their while.

Yup, it's a self defeating ideology. They're snowed under with work because of all the calls, yet if they were on the streets preventing, a lot of criminals wouldn't risk it - thus, reducing the work load.

 

[bonxie23]

Adding to that, what if you were innocent? You'd be forced to sit there with a room full of people wanting you punished, families wanting you to hurt etc for something you never did. Those will be your last moments as a free person.

If justice is about revenge and humiliation, I don't want any part of it

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[Saintjay]

Yup, it's a self defeating ideology. They're snowed under with work because of all the calls, yet if they were on the streets preventing, a lot of criminals wouldn't risk it - thus, reducing the work load.

The problem is how the Police are measured. Amount of recorded crimes, amount of prosecutions, amount of detected crimes, amount of arrests etc. Four cops walking a beat in a town might show a small reduction in crime however it has a knock on impact on the other things they are measured on. Paying top of the pay band PC's over 40k a year to deter crime walking a beat isn't seen as a worthwhile investment.

The only real answer is probably more officers to allow people the time to actually get out of a Police car and walk the town, instead of going from job to job as is the life of your average county cop.

 

[Which Tyler]

It's the same in so many walks of life "an ounce of prevention is worth a lb of cure"

But no-one's funding prevention, whilst vested interests are funding against it

 

[ncurd]

Bobbys on the Beat is one of those other misnomers they don't actually reduce crime by much. Which is why you don't see them, they're a "comfort" rather than a deterrent.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Even if there are more Bobbies on the beat they have to be able to interact with the community in which they work in. The distrust of police is at an all time high because of the lack it. Peeps need to feel they can rely on them when they need them because as soon as they get let down that trust is gone and will take a long time to build back up.

 

[Reiser99]

Private Eye did an investigation into American people who received the death penalty and many of which were later found innocent.

The American system is completely different and almost geared towards wrongful convictions. If I remember correctly, if you get a federal trial and get convicted it's like 40 years minimum so most people just plead guilty regardless in case they lose and have to spend the rest of their lives in jail. On top jails are privately run and they spend loads lobbying politicians to make laws and sentences easier to give jail time.

 

[SG59_]

Bobbys on the Beat is one of those other misnomers they don't actually reduce crime by much. Which is why you don't see them, they're a "comfort" rather than a deterrent.

I'm not sure on that. A lot of crime is done on a chance. For example, round my way people have been randomly trying doors at night and hoping someone has left there's open. Another trick is going through the side of a house to the garden and jumping over the fence etc.

I imagine you'd think twice if you knew police were around.

 

[ncurd]

I'm not sure on that. A lot of crime is done on a chance. For example, round my way people have been randomly trying doors at night and hoping someone has left there's open. Another trick is going through the side of a house to the garden and jumping over the fence to get to the back of the their target.

I imagine you'd think twice if you knew police were around.

Well think about how much police you'd need to be that vigilant.

Like what you saying could be done but recruitment levels and costs would go through the roof.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Hence why police rely on public with CCTV, their smartphones to capture any crime as it is happening.