A Political Thread pt. 2

[Which Tyler]

Coronation: Public invited to swear allegiance to King Charles

The pledge is among several changes to the service, which will incorporate female clergy and other faiths.

www.bbc.com

So if I (or others) don't join in with swearing allegiance will I/they be arrested as a traitor by the police?

I struggle to think of a less British thing to do!

If I happen to be watching, I'll be more likely to sing along to Killing in the Name

 

[The Seeker]

 

[The Seeker]

 

[Saintjay]

And the people being arrested for it?

Personal experience of seeing it's application over 12 years. You've had some shockers and wrong application over recent years for example a person saying a police horse is 'gay'.

Harvey vs DPP 2011 is a good example of how a few F bombs might get you arrested. The case determined that the word **** isn't so commonly used that it's no longer offensive.

Various examples from Inews, heckler arrested in Scotland for shouting at Prince Andrew, a protestor was also arrested during Edinburgh's royal events for holding an anti-monarchy sign, while in London a video emerged of a protestor being escorted away from the gates of Parliament by a group of London Metropolitan Police Service officers as he brandished a sign that read "Not my King".
In Oxford, a man was arrested on Sunday on suspicion of behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress under section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 after shouting "Who elected him?" about King Charles III. He was later de-arrested.

 

[Saintjay]

Good follow up article on the use / misuse of the public order act.

‘The crowd were saying, “Kill him, kick him to death”’: what happened to the people who protested against King Charles?

When the queen died last year, republicans balked at the fawning response to the succession. Some even found themselves under arrest for minor acts of protest, such as heckling. Ahead of next week’s coronation, three tell their tales

www.google.com

 

[Which Tyler]

 

[McTallshort]

Time to mute this tread until after the coronation....

 

[Welsh Exile]

Personal experience of seeing it's application over 12 years. You've had some shockers and wrong application over recent years for example a person saying a police horse is 'gay'.

Harvey vs DPP 2011 is a good example of how a few F bombs might get you arrested. The case determined that the word **** isn't so commonly used that it's no longer offensive.

Various examples from Inews, heckler arrested in Scotland for shouting at Prince Andrew, a protestor was also arrested during Edinburgh's royal events for holding an anti-monarchy sign, while in London a video emerged of a protestor being escorted away from the gates of Parliament by a group of London Metropolitan Police Service officers as he brandished a sign that read "Not my King".
In Oxford, a man was arrested on Sunday on suspicion of behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress under section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 after shouting "Who elected him?" about King Charles III. He was later de-arrested.

Are you saying section 5 is a good thing and these are examples of that?

I can see why our American cousins not only cringe at our hate speech laws but section 5 public order act is embarrassing for a country like ours.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Time to mute this tread until after the coronation....

Oh here we go, the rozzers trying to shut us down already.

 

[Saintjay]

Are you saying section 5 is a good thing and these are examples of that?

I can see why our American cousins not only cringe at our hate speech laws but section 5 public order act is embarrassing for a country like ours.

No not at all, if applied correctly by the police it's probably not a bad thing. However it's definition is so broad it's open to misuse and interpretation of what is 'reasonable' and what causes a person alarm and distress. Do i get upset over people throwing f bombs in the street, no i don't. Does my dear old nan, yes most definitely.

 

[Welsh Exile]

No not at all, if applied correctly by the police it's probably not a bad thing. However it's definition is so broad it's open to misuse and interpretation of what is 'reasonable' and what causes a person alarm and distress. Do i get upset over people throwing f bombs in the street, no i don't. Does my dear old nan, yes most definitely.

So you think people should get arrested if some people, even a minority of people, get offended?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Swearing should have people arrested. Man, that's some wild ****.

 

[Saintjay]

So you think people should get arrested if some people, even a minority of people, get offended?

Where have I said people should get arrested? Unfortunately people do get arrested for these things. It's about context, location etc. In theory you could be arrested for giving the bird to the bus going past. It's not what you or i think is offensive it's ultimately it's what the magistrates do. Who's views are more likely align to my nans on what's offensive than mine.

I good way to think of it is "What would the person on the Clapham omnibus think".

 

[Welsh Exile]

Where have I said people should get arrested? Unfortunately people do get arrested for these things. It's about context, location etc. In theory you could be arrested for giving the bird to the bus going past. It's not what you or i think is offensive it's ultimately it's what the magistrates do. Who's views are more likely align to my nans on what's offensive than mine.

I good way to think of it is "What would the person on the Clapham omnibus think".

I'm interested in what people on here think from a moral/ free speech point of view.

Obviously I think the law is insane, and I can't get my head around people defending it because of old grannies getting offended. But this is the western world (well not America) people get offended and that's like some kind crime now.

I remember one such case getting overturned as a muppet magistrate convicted a man for swearing in the presence of the police (not even swearing at them which you should be allowed to do)

We're obviously coming from different places on this but as you touched on and admitted these vague laws are easily open to abuse and when you look at police in this country it's even more worrying.

 

[General Melchett]

I see that Royal 'superfans' have started to set up tents on the mall already - four days in advance. Absolutely insane.

NB. In Swedish 'fan' translates into 5hit. So the mall will soon be riddled with royal supersh1ts.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I actually legitimately 100% find all the celebrations and ceremonies for the king and the queens funeral offensive as **** but I wouldn't want people celebrating it to be arrested. Seems weird how the offence only seems to go one way.

 

[General Melchett]

It's actually quite depressing that there is no obvious pathway to abolishing the monarchy. I guess a referendum would be required ultimately and there will be little appetite for one of those after Indyref and Brexit. It would also likely require Labour to have a far left leader and be so desperate to win power that they might to promise one in their manifesto but even so very unlikely. Maybe France and Germany invading us is the only way out.

 

[Welsh Exile]

It's actually quite depressing that there is no obvious pathway to abolishing the monarchy. I guess a referendum would be required ultimately and there will be little appetite for one of those after Indyref and Brexit. It would also likely require Labour to have a far left leader and be so desperate to win power that they might to promise one in their manifesto but even so very unlikely. Maybe France and Germany invading us is the only way out.

My only hope is that the rising distain for the monarchy amongst young people and the increasing indifference amongst older generations will hopefully lead to a shift in opinion in about 15 years. Older generations dying off will help as well. I won't hold my breath though.

What would also help is Charles being **** and the whole Meghan, Will, Harry, Kate circus dragging on and ******* people off.

The pomp and ceremony we do so well actually makes me sick. Especially in these times of cost of living and rising prices and we're meant to foot the bill for these *****. Nah. **** that ****.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I doubt the monarchy will ever go, just fade more into irrelevance/lose all of the extravagant crownings etc. like the other European monarchies (apparently 12 active European monarchies, only ours has this level of attention)

 

[McTallshort]

I'm interested in what people on here think from a moral/ free speech point of view.

Obviously I think the law is insane, and I can't get my head around people defending it because of old grannies getting offended. But this is the western world (well not America) people get offended and that's like some kind crime now.

I remember one such case getting overturned as a muppet magistrate convicted a man for swearing in the presence of the police (not even swearing at them which you should be allowed to do)

We're obviously coming from different places on this but as you touched on and admitted these vague laws are easily open to abuse and when you look at police in this country it's even more worrying.

People in America get offended about drag queens reading stories to kids so I'm not sure they are a great example of free speech.

For me freedom of speech is fine but like all freedoms is doesn't mean freedom of consequence. Israel Folau has the freedom to post bible thumping nonsense but people who pay his sponsorship money have then a right not to continue to pay him.

If you use threatening and abusive language directly at someone then there is already a law against threatening and abusive behaviour that's knob all to with freedom of speech.

If someone is banned from Twitter for saying something then that's up to Twitter. They are a private company and you sign up to follow their rules.

I'm not getting the whole I'm repressed, freedom of speech thing and tend to find people hide behind it online because they are dicks.