5 vital players for each country ahead of the world cup?

[j'nuh]

Revisiting my post 'cuz I was young and naive.

Would be the most gutted if any of these got injured:
1. Berry
2. Joseph
3. Robshaw
4. Cole
5. Brown

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Do we really need to get into this again, in this thread?

I'm beyond stupid but you're putting a 30-3 loss on the shoulders on one man? please....

I was being flippant dismissing it in the same way ragerancehr was dismissing defence and goalkicking

You just put the loss of the entire 6N down to 1 incident so don't give me that. Also I wasn't dismissing defence and goalkicking, I was saying Ford is now on par with Farrell in goal kicking so that is not a reason to select Farrell and what Ford will concede in defence that Farrell won't he will more than make up with in attack that Farrell won't.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Revisiting my post 'cuz I was young and naive.

Would be the most gutted if any of these got injured:
1. Berry
2. Joseph
3. Robshaw
4. Cole
5. Brown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueZ6tvqhk8U&feature=youtu.be&t=18s

 

[goodNumber10]

You just put the loss of the entire 6N down to 1 incident so don't give me that.

Ford hits either of those tackles England are champions.... There was literally nothing Farrell could do in a 30 point drubbing that could have made a difference - they are completely incomparable.

A better gauge would be the Italy game last year vs the France game this year...

Regardless is Ford to blame for England losing the 6N? No, of course not (France actually scored after that from a rolling maul) but you can't say defense doesn't matter because we score points.

I was saying Ford is now on par with Farrell in goal kicking so that is not a reason to select Farrell and what Ford will concede in defence that Farrell won't he will more than make up with in attack that Farrell won't.

There is nothing to indicate this is true.

 

[William18]

Do we really need to get into this again, in this thread?

I'm beyond stupid but you're putting a 30-3 loss on the shoulders on one man? please....

Fords defence was frequently questioned by people on this forum all through the 6 nations, if you want to ignore that fine - i assure you the coaches won't, there is no point in scoring/creating 4 tries if you are responsible for letting in the opponents 5th.

Ultimately I really, really can't be arsed getting into this again with you, and this thread is going to end up another england argument so lets just drop it here, and see what happens in the autumn.

- - - Updated - - -



I was being flippant dismissing it in the same way ragerancehr was dismissing defence and goalkicking - i'm not understating Fords influence on the attack, but you also have to look at the arsenal he has around him - an on song youngs, an out and out attacking 13 in joseph. a pack that was finally going forward and providing front football. In the vs Franc egame youngs made one break with ford at first receiver - Fords try the rest were with forwards at 1st receiver.

He had options that Farrell was never afforded - lets look at Farrell on the Lions tour, as an attacking 10 with options around him - different animal completely.

Lets look at the ireland game where the pack were taken to task and Ford had absolutely zero influence on the game.

**I'll also take this moment to point out that i never said Farrell would/should start at 10. Ragerancher took it down that dark, rain sodden alley.

*** Mods can we move this Faz vs Ford talk to the post 6 nations/England world cup thread?

I would take the bolded bit all day. Unless you are going to argue that in a tighter World Cup match Ford wouldn't create those 4 tries?

 

[Maverick1987]

Ford hits either of those tackles England are champions.... There was literally nothing Farrell could do in a 30 point drubbing that could have made a difference - they are completely incomparable.

A better gauge would be the Italy game last year vs the France game this year...

Regardless is Ford to blame for England losing the 6N? No, of course not (France actually scored after that from a rolling maul) but you can't say defense doesn't matter because we score points.




There is nothing to indicate this is true.

We could merely block up the midfield defence by playing Barritt instead of Burrell . Surely everyone's happy then and Fazlet is still on the scrap heap .....

 

[nzlizard]

For NZ

Coles - no back up really so he needs to be there
Savea - Speaks for itself
Ben Smith - great attacking force
Read - If he keeps his form of the last few years
Retallick - Best lock in the world and works like anything each game.

Honorable mentions

Conrad Smith - solid in midfield, esp if we don't blood Fekitoa enough.
SBW - If he can get his form back

Still have

Coles - as above
Ben Smith - as above
Retallick - as above

now include

Aaron Smith - just so far ahead of the pack

as for 5th I don't know, still think Savea as his try scoring record speaks for itself and his ability to make something out of nothing, just needs the ball.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ford hits either of those tackles England are champions.... There was literally nothing Farrell could do in a 30 point drubbing that could have made a difference - they are completely incomparable.

A better gauge would be the Italy game last year vs the France game this year...

Regardless is Ford to blame for England losing the 6N? No, of course not (France actually scored after that from a rolling maul) but you can't say defense doesn't matter because we score points.




There is nothing to indicate this is true.

We could have been given a penalty try we deserved, other players could have stopped the other French tries, the French could have been stopped before or after the Ford incident, to put the entire 6N down to 1 missed tackle after Ford was instrumental in creating so much that game is just beyond stupid.

 

[goodNumber10]

to put the entire 6N down to 1 missed tackle after Ford was instrumental in creating so much that game is just beyond stupid.

Regardless is Ford to blame for England losing the 6N? No, of course not (France actually scored after that from a rolling maul) but you can't say defense doesn't matter because we score points.

I think Youngs had a far bigger impact on that game than Ford did, he was instrumental in about 4 of those tries in a way that Ford wasn't.

MODS, might be worth moving this Ford vs Faz discussion to the England thread?

 

[Feicarsinn]

I think Youngs had a far bigger impact on that game than Ford did, he was instrumental in about 4 of those tries in a way that Ford wasn't.

MODS, might be worth moving this Ford vs Faz discussion to the England thread?

Orrrr, start a thread yourself? Pro active, yo.

 

[goodNumber10]

Orrrr, start a thread yourself? Pro active, yo.

*sneers*

Why? Unlike discussions on Ireland there are already plenty of England threads going. No need for more covering old ground.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

If Ben Youngs is poor, England will be poor. Most important single player - though to preempt responses, I know Youngs will depend on the pack effort overall.

 

[goodNumber10]

If Ben Youngs is poor, England will be poor. Most important single player - though to preempt responses, I know Youngs will depend on the pack effort overall.

I think scrum half is more important for England than fly half.

When care was on form we played good attacking front foot rugby, when Young's was on form we again played good attacking rugby... A sniping 9 creates more space than a good 10 can.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think scrum half is more important for England than fly half.

When care was on form we played good attacking front foot rugby, when Young's was on form we again played good attacking rugby... A sniping 9 creates more space than a good 10 can.

Well we can agree on that. I do think Youngs on his form last 6N was better than Care on form personally. Only other Scrumhalves I really want to see are Wiggs for extra game control and Simpson for the running threat. Dickson is pants, spends far too long moaning about things and too often kills fast ball by being a whiny moron rather than just picking the damn thing up.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Well we can agree on that. I do think Youngs on his form last 6N was better than Care on form personally. Only other Scrumhalves I really want to see are Wiggs for extra game control and Simpson for the running threat. Dickson is pants, spends far too long moaning about things and too often kills fast ball by being a whiny moron rather than just picking the damn thing up.

Agree with this. However I think unlike the 10 scenario, England have 2 good SH's who both have all the basics and just offer different specialities. Not impossible to chop and change over the course of the WC if they both train well these next months.

Also something about Dickson really irks me. Used to rate him a few years back when his cocky attitude was backed up.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and:

Matt Scott
Finn Russell
John Barclay
Ross Ford
Tommy Seymour

Players like Hogg are obviously important but I think these are players without any comparable or exciting replacements.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Agree with this. However I think unlike the 10 scenario, England have 2 good SH's who both have all the basics and just offer different specialities. Not impossible to chop and change over the course of the WC if they both train well these next months.

Also something about Dickson really irks me. Used to rate him a few years back when his cocky attitude was backed up.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and:

Matt Scott
Finn Russell
John Barclay
Ross Ford
Tommy Seymour

Players like Hogg are obviously important but I think these are players without any comparable or exciting replacements.

Hogg yes, Russell yes, Not Scott i thought his defensive game was poor in this year six nations and Ford can be replaced quite well i would go with something like this

Stuart Hogg
Finn Russell
Mark Bennett
Jonny Gray
Blair Cowan

 

[ZeroTwo]

Hogg yes, Russell yes, Not Scott i thought his defensive game was poor in this year six nations and Ford can be replaced quite well i would go with something like this

Stuart Hogg
Finn Russell
Mark Bennett
Jonny Gray
Blair Cowan

Thing is for Hogg, I rate Greig Tonks highly who could fill in. Maitland often operates from fullback much better as well.

I don't believe we have another winger on Seymour's level so for me he has to be in. Scotland definitely lost attacking threat when he got injured.

I think Blair Cowan and Strokosch are similar. However both Bennett and Jonny Gray are good shouts. Maybe:

Mark Bennett
Finn Russell
Jonny Gray
Tommy Seymour

Then maybe Hogg for the last place. He is pretty vital.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Thing is for Hogg, I rate Greig Tonks highly who could fill in. Maitland often operates from fullback much better as well.

I don't believe we have another winger on Seymour's level so for me he has to be in. Scotland definitely lost attacking threat when he got injured.

I think Blair Cowan and Strokosch are similar. However both Bennett and Jonny Gray are good shouts. Maybe:

Mark Bennett
Finn Russell
Jonny Gray
Tommy Seymour

Then maybe Hogg for the last place. He is pretty vital.

Not Blair Cowan and Al Strokosch, i would say maybe Cowan and Barclay are both good shouts. But yeah i don't disagree with your list there thats looks about right

 

[valley commando]

the only thing vital George Ford is going to be doing is keeping the number 12'a seat warm on the touchline for 75 minutes before he gets his token jog on whilst Faz moves to 12.



My 5:

01: Ben Youngs - controls the games pace, the tactics will revolve around him.
02: Owen Frazzle! - goal kicking
03: Corbisiero - need scrum dominance in a way I don't see with Marler and Vuni
04: Launchbury - breakdown (standard)
05: Chris Robshaw - The captain has to be one fo the most vital people in the sqaud/team, he will control pretty much everything.

Robshaw ?
He's ****e he wouldn't get in any of the top sides 15

 

[goodNumber10]

Robshaw ?
He's ****e he wouldn't get in any of the top sides 15

That doesn't make him any less vital to England, the captain of any side is one of the most important players on the team.

Go troll someone else mate.