5 vital players for each country ahead of the world cup?

[RoosTah]

For Australia I'd now say:

Pocock
Moore
Giteau
Speight
Folau

Problems remain at 9 and lock in particular

 

[Peat]

You don't rate Watson then? Or is it a case of thinking that SL would pick Goode instead?

His defensive skillset did not seem strong enough to me during the 6N; I'd be uneasy about him as first choice full back and might even prefer Goode, unimpressed as I am by him.

 

[Jaguares]

For Australia I'd now say:

Pocock
Moore
Giteau
Speight
Folau

Problems remain at 9 and lock in particular

I think that Kepu and Slipper are more important than all those. Thats the MAIN Wallaby problem, Australia doesn't have good props, they are the only decent props. So when they leave the field, the Wallaby scrum is crushed. The last 20 minutes are alway the worst of the Wallaby scrum, that's because a prop can't play 80 minutes at test level because the position is too hard. Kepu and Slipper are irreplaceable ATM.

 

[RoosTah]

I think that Kepu and Slipper are more important than all those. Thats the MAIN Wallaby problem, Australia doesn't have good props, they are the only decent props. So when they leave the field, the Wallaby scrum is crushed. The last 20 minutes are alway the worst of the Wallaby scrum, that's because a prop can't play 80 minutes at test level because the position is too hard. Kepu and Slipper are irreplaceable ATM.

Fair point mate. As you say though, we only have "decent" props, so the guys who come into replace Kepu and Slipper are just a little bit less "decent". That's not the case with the guys I've listed though.

 

[Jaguares]

Kepu and Slipper are good props for me. The problem are the reserves, craps like Alexander or Benn Robinson. Moore is the best Aussie hooker but he's replaceable. Last year the Wallabies suffered an injury crisis of hooker and replacements did surprisingly well. Hooper and Liam Gill are goods openside flankers...

 

[RoosTah]

Kepu and Slipper are good props for me. The problem are the reserves, craps like Alexander or Benn Robinson. Moore is the best Aussie hooker but he's replaceable. Last year the Wallabies suffered an injury crisis of hooker and replacements did surprisingly well. Hooper and Liam Gill are goods openside flankers...

Hooper is a good openside, but he plays a very different game to Pocock. No one else in Aussie Rugby is anywhere near as combative and physically imposing at the brakedown as Pocock, and I reckon that in the test arena you just lose way more without him in your starting line up. Hooper is a faster, more open style of player, but can't quite control the ruck in the same way Pocock can - if I were to guess, I'd bet Cheik wants to start games with Pocock and throw Hooper on in the last 20 to deal with the tired legs. Gill doesn't really come into it for mine - he's alright, but nothing more.

As for Hooker - Tafu does a good job and Latu was decent enough too, but Moore is as critical for his leadership as his technical skills and grunt. The reserves may have done ok without him, but we lost a lot of bloody games last year if you remember, so I think you could argue we missed him all the same. You don't lose leadership with Kepu and Slipper gone, even if the scrum suffers a little.

 

[Jaguares]

Hooper is a good openside, but he plays a very different game to Pocock. No one else in Aussie Rugby is anywhere near as combative and physically imposing at the brakedown as Pocock, and I reckon that in the test arena you just lose way more without him in your starting line up. Hooper is a faster, more open style of player, but can't quite control the ruck in the same way Pocock can - if I were to guess, I'd bet Cheik wants to start games with Pocock and throw Hooper on in the last 20 to deal with the tired legs. Gill doesn't really come into it for mine - he's alright, but nothing more.

As for Hooker - Tafu does a good job and Latu was decent enough too, but Moore is as critical for his leadership as his technical skills and grunt. The reserves may have done ok without him, but we lost a lot of bloody games last year if you remember, so I think you could argue we missed him all the same. You don't lose leadership with Kepu and Slipper gone, even if the scrum suffers a little.

I agree, Poey is the best Openside flanker in Aussie rugby and Moore the best hooker but at least, they have replacements, Kepu and Slipper haven't. Thats my point.

A starting Wallabies XV with Hooper or Tafu is a good side. A starting XV without Kepu and Slipper would be a catastrophe

 

[RoosTah]

Yeah, I'm not so sure to be honest. I think the difference between guys like Kepu and Slipper and the Brumbies combo of Sio and Alexander, who certainly didn't get pushed around much this season.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think that Kepu and Slipper are more important than all those. Thats the MAIN Wallaby problem, Australia doesn't have good props, they are the only decent props. So when they leave the field, the Wallaby scrum is crushed. The last 20 minutes are alway the worst of the Wallaby scrum, that's because a prop can't play 80 minutes at test level because the position is too hard. Kepu and Slipper are irreplaceable ATM.

I agree with Conrad here.

And how many tries was scored this year in the Super Rugby from first phase possession (line-outs and Scrums). Guys like Folau/Giteau/Speight have no potency if they don't get good quality ball from the forwards. And the South African teams have shown that swapping your props around half-time sometimes works very well.

What's worse for Oz is that Benn Robinson and Alexander aren't in the squad, so do they have test-level props to back-up Sio and Kepu??

 

[rab.91]

I know scotland won't make the final but theirs always hope my 5 players would have to be

Hogg
Russell
Alex Dunbar (hope he's fot)
Gray brothers
Who ever plays openside

 

[Kiwi_]

Aaron Smith.

I think Aaron is our most vital player. I'm not just saying that as a Highlander fan. He's been absolutely vital to the AB's for the last 3 seasons and made the Highlanders the team they are. TJ is good, but Aaron just has that drive and x factor so few players have.

Ben Smith
Rettalick
Richie

Go without saying

Dane Coles - We have no real #2 cover after him, Elliot is alright and Kevy is a little old now to last the 80 minute distance.

Dan

I know it's 6, but I really couldn't pick who to leave out..

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would go with Cole, Launchbury, Ford, Joesph and Marler.

 

[chippieolamus]

Would go with Cole, Launchbury, Ford, Joesph and Marler.

I wouldn't say Marler. We have decent enough depth at LH, I'd be happy to see any one of Mako, Corbs (looks like he's regaining form) or Mullan starting there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Fair enough although I wouldn't be happy seeing Corbs start ATM.

 

[TobesHodges]

Dane Coles - We have no real #2 cover after him, Elliot is alright and Kevy is a little old now to last the 80 minute distance.

What do you think about Ma'atu? He was having a stormer before he got injured, he was on the bench for the final so I can assume he would be fit..

 

[Wendigo7]

1. George Ford
2. Jonathan Joseph
3. Billy Vunipola
4. Jack Nowell
5. Dan Cole

 

[goodNumber10]

1. George Ford
2. Jonathan Joseph
3. Billy Vunipola
4. Jack Nowell
5. Dan Cole

the only thing vital George Ford is going to be doing is keeping the number 12'a seat warm on the touchline for 75 minutes before he gets his token jog on whilst Faz moves to 12.



My 5:

01: Ben Youngs - controls the games pace, the tactics will revolve around him.
02: Owen Frazzle! - goal kicking
03: Corbisiero - need scrum dominance in a way I don't see with Marler and Vuni
04: Launchbury - breakdown (standard)
05: Chris Robshaw - The captain has to be one fo the most vital people in the sqaud/team, he will control pretty much everything.

 

[ncurd]

1. George Ford
2. Jonathan Joseph
3. Billy Vunipola
4. Jack Nowell
5. Dan Cole

Not really sure about Nowell there not saying the lad isn't good but I'm not convinced he'll be vital to our success.

Same goes for Billy I think if Morgan is fit and in form it's hard to distinguish between the two who'll be more vital to the squad or even who the starter is.
@TobesHodges, Kruis wasn't even selected as a benchwarmers above Nick Easter I know that's partially due to cover but it's an indication of where he is in Lancaster's plans. Plus you putting him ahead of 3 player who have consistently performed at international level. It simply isn't going to happen.

Barritt good player who's never really shone at international level which is why the 12 position is probably the most debatable position in the England side on who will start. As Barritt is hardly shoe in here he's not vital to our plans, personally my bet is we'll start out the tournament with Farrell playing there.

Brown....apart from last years 6 nations when has he really shone at international level? Don't get me wrong Brown of last year I'll take in a heartbeat but he has yet to prove that was anything but a flash in the pan. Pluss I don't think full-back is as a vital position as say scrum-half to our tournament success.

 

[Jaguares]

What's worse for Oz is that Benn Robinson and Alexander aren't in the squad, so do they have test-level props to back-up Sio and Kepu??

I disagree, Robinson and Alexander have been crushed at the scrum so many times at test level. I think they are the problem, both are good props around the park but their skills at the scrum time are very poor.

Mario Ledesma has been working with Cheika in Waratahs the last 6 months and now he's in the Wallabies staff, so he knows Robinson very well, if he thinks that Robinson shouldn't be at the squad, he should have his reasons.

The same for Alexander, Ledesma has been watching the Super Rugby closely, so if he thinks that Sio and Holmes are the best options for back-ups, they must be.

The options should be:

Loosehead prop:

1- James Slipper
2- Scott Sio

Tighthead prop:

1- Sekope Kepu
2- Greg Holmes

Faulkner is crap. Cheika should call Robinson or Alexander, only in case of an injury crisis. Salesi Ma'afu would be a good option but he isn't in the discussion by the selection rules.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

the only thing vital George Ford is going to be doing is keeping the number 12'a seat warm on the touchline for 75 minutes before he gets his token jog on whilst Faz moves to 12.



My 5:

01: Ben Youngs - controls the games pace, the tactics will revolve around him.
02: Owen Frazzle! - goal kicking
03: Corbisiero - need scrum dominance in a way I don't see with Marler and Vuni
04: Launchbury - breakdown (standard)
05: Chris Robshaw - The captain has to be one fo the most vital people in the sqaud/team, he will control pretty much everything.

Fords kicking is now on par with Farrells, if Farrell is only selected for his kicking then that makes him redundant.