[2025 Six Nations] Ireland vs England - 01/02/25

[TRF_Olyy]

I think many England fans are at a crossroads. Do they continue supporting England or do they become game law geeks and start supporting Luke Pearce and Karl Dickson.

I will always support Luke Pearce and I will always support....the campaign for KD to be sent to the Hague for crimes against rugby

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Saw that Dan Sheehan has tied the scoring record for forwards in the 6n on 9 tries. He's 26 and one game into his 4th 6n. Nutty stats.

 

[BPM]

Marcus Smith once against demonstrating how overrated he is.

How so?

He was good when England had the ball. Couldn't do much without it in the second half.

The yellow was a team yellow rather than anything particularly egregious on his part and he certainly isn't the first player to be bumped off by Bundee Aki. I imagine Prendergast would have been similarly obliterated in the same scenario.

There are plenty of things to criticise about England's performance but focusing on Marcus Smith is a weird take.

 

[BPM]

Is this the longest spell of mediocrity an England team has gone through in the professional era? I can't remember an extended run quite like this with no hope in sight. It doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon and quite frankly I can't see a way out.

Bringing the positivity I see?

 

[Geordie]

For France

9 Mitchell
10 Marcus
12 Farrell
13 Lawrence.

 

[McTallshort]

Is this the longest spell of mediocrity an England team has gone through in the professional era? I can't remember an extended run quite like this with no hope in sight. It doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon and quite frankly I can't see a way out.

You don't remember the Robinson/Ashton/Johnson years then?

 

[Saintjay]

You don't remember the Robinson/Ashton/Johnson years then?

Might be off but Ashton and Johnson were on a 55% win ratio with 22/38 games.

No idea what Steve is on but it's probably close to 22. Someone can probably work it out. Unfortunately I've got to pop out

 

[ncurd]

You don't remember the Robinson/Ashton/Johnson years then?

Johnson never came less than 2nd in the 6 nations and won one. Ashton 3rd.

We only came 4th twice that was during Robinsons reigns of terror.

It's 5th and 4th and last year's miracle 3rd and another 3rd in 4 years. This year 4th feels where we'll end up and we haven't really looked like contenders at all.

It's a pretty sustained rot and 2020's win feels more like a blip.

 

[j-dawg]

You don't remember the Robinson/Ashton/Johnson years then?

Our W/L ratio and six nations placings are worse than during those years, and our World Cup semi doesn't beat the final we made in that slump, so objectively we are in a worse place now across every metric I can think of.

Bringing the positivity I see?

What is there to be positive about? Try and answer that without sounding as ridiculous as Borthwick.

 

[McTallshort]

Our W/L ratio and six nations placings are worse than during those years, and our World Cup semi doesn't beat the final we made in that slump, so objectively we are in a worse place now across every metric I can think of.



What is there to be positive about? Try and answer that without sounding as ridiculous as Borthwick.

You do have to take into account Ireland and Scotland are better than they were back then and France are more consistent

 

[ncurd]

You do have to take into account Ireland and Scotland are better than they were back then and France are more consistent

Ireland less so and Wales were "better"

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You do have to take into account Ireland and Scotland are better than they were back then and France are more consistent

Obviously can't take one match up in isolation but O'Sullivan's and Kidney's Irish teams were significantly worse than Farrell's Ireland. Farrell has a 66% win (well Easterbuy for one) record over ye and O'Sullivan and Kidney (post 03) were 80%.

As an opposition fan I fear the current England side more than the 2004 - 2013 iterations.

A really frustrating run of fixtures for England recently but apart from the Oz game it's 6 losses to top 4 teams, with another one to come next week and it's generally accepted that there's a gap to bridge from top 4 to the rest. Don't think Scotland or Australia do any better in that run of fixtures and probably get a couple hammerings too. Argentina did beat SA and NZ but their bad performances are worse than England's. It has been so tough for them.

 

[higgik]

Just looking back at the AI teams, and I wonder if SB thought we could play like the ABs v Ireland.
The back row for AB was also 'small', with Sititi, Cane and Savea.
Perhaps, SB thought Curry x 2 and Earl would do the same!!!!

 

[BPM]

Our W/L ratio and six nations placings are worse than during those years, and our World Cup semi doesn't beat the final we made in that slump, so objectively we are in a worse place now across every metric I can think of.



What is there to be positive about? Try and answer that without sounding as ridiculous as Borthwick.

The defence was a drastic improvement on the AIs. There were some poor missed tackles, but that's not a system failing.

Lawrence had arguably his best game for England. Definitely his best in some time.

A loss is a loss, but not many sides score 3 tries in Dublin and get within 5pts. I just don't believe we're as terrible as others seem to delight in saying.

I feel like certain posters are happier when we lose so they can put the boot in. I just find that weird and from a personal POV, it makes this forum a pretty miserable place.

When it stops being a sensible conversation about what actually happened and is only about how 'shite' we are I lose interest.

 

[higgik]

The defence was a drastic improvement on the AIs. There were some poor missed tackles, but that's not a system failing.

Lawrence had arguably his best game for England. Definitely his best in some time.

A loss is a loss, but not many sides score 3 tries in Dublin and get within 5pts. I just don't believe we're as terrible as others seem to delight in saying.

I feel like certain posters are happier when we lose so they can put the boot in. I just find that weird.

He did.
An issue is the threat of Slade is not fitting the 'gameplan' as I see it.
The idea seems to be using Earl, Lawrence, IFW, et al to punch through and create quick ball for Mitchell and Smith to play from, (fairly normal). Slade had neither the power or pace to do this and so we are one runner down.
There are a few coming through to compliment Lawrence, but why not use Ojomoh to start, as he has a club link with Lawrence. Then add in Willis and Hill, you suddenly have a midfield and BR that has pace and power to get over gainline in attack, and also the speed to keep up with it.

 

[j-dawg]

A good point, but we're now losing to a terrible Australia (who we have established dominance over since the second test summer tour 2010) and Fiji at home, along with every other record breakingly terrible stat of the last four or five years. I just can't remember things ever looking so reliably bleak for us over an extended period.

 

[Jimbo]

As we can't pick players who play for other countries, who else is there to bring in? (Don't worry, it's rhetorical.)

We've already seen Murley (who had a mixed debut) get slaughtered on here, by people who should know better, when he may well develop into an excellent international wing. What chance would Hartley, Ojomoh, Atkinson, Anyanwu stand?

There aren't many weho come into international rugby and are instant megastars.

Exactly this it's not like he's come into a successful well oiled setup which is how you'd ideally do it.

 

[Which Tyler]

Chessum to 6, Hill to bench
Willis to start
ACurry starts, with his brother on the bench
I'd like to see 12. Dingwall, 13. Lawrence, but that's not going to happen.

Murley... big question for man-management. If he hits training tearing up trees and determined to right some wrong, then he gets the chance to redeem himself. If he hits training with his head down and the weight of the world on his shoulders, then we can't risk it.

Realistically, we don't have much room to tinker with selection.

If Quirke or JvP are fit, then there's a bench spot waiting for them. Mitchell had a bad game, but has credit in the bank, Spencer starts or stays home.

 

[BrokenWing]

I'd like to see 12. Dingwall, 13. Lawrence, but that's not going to happen.

I get the feeling that Borthwick has invested so much in Slade and Lawrence he's going to keep going and hope a partnership develops.

 

[Saintjay]

Exactly this it's not like he's come into a successful well oiled setup which is how you'd ideally do it.

Realistically he's probably are fourth choice wing. He is slightly older and has more club appearances then Freeman, Sleightholme, IFW etc.

I think he went ok just his mistakes were clear and he seemed to panic under pressure. I don't think dropping him will do his confidence any good. I'd probably play him again.