[2025 Six Nations] England vs Scotland - 22/02/25

[Vieux Talonneur]

Alex Coles?

Pretty bold picking Hill but Itoje and Chessum might end up playing 80mins.

Sod's Law this is the game Itoje gets injured and Chessum has only got 39 minutes of rugby in his legs in months.

Two big BSFs, but in no sense realistic lock hybrids, on the bench is a huge risk. Would be a massive, and unfair, ask on either, but presumably Hill, to lock for anything other than a few minutes.

Coles must either be hurt or stinking out the place in training.

Pleased for Hill to be involved though.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Scotland by 8

I want what your smoking bud

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well you would think the coaching team would have been prepping for this with George clearly an injury doubt. So they must be happy with what they've seen with Ted covering lock. Hes a powerful big guy, but lock at this level...its a step up.

He'd be totally underpowered at lock. He's shorter than Itoje, let alone Chessum, and he's 6kg lighter than either, neither of who are the heaviest.

If we thought our scrum would be weakened by subbing Martin for Chessum that would be double with Hill coming in as he's smaller and barely plays there.

 

[Geordie]

He'd be totally underpowered at lock. He's shorter than Itoje, let alone Chessum, and he's 6kg lighter than either, neither of who are the heaviest.

If we thought our scrum would be weakened by subbing Martin for Chessum that would be double with Hill coming in as he's smaller and barely plays there.

Hes the same height as Itoje, and id say hes more powerful than itoje. The issue is the experience at lock at this level, and thats massive i agree. But SB is the spreadsheet man...he will have known that Martin wasnt making it and could have called up another replacement lock but chose not to. They will have been training with Hill there so he must be happy with the situation.

 

[retired9]

More a 10/12 who can cover 15. Was picked at 12 against Ireland too although moved to 10 pretty early due to injuries. I'm still not convinced McDowall offers much internationally beyond being a competent gainline threat, and having a less skilled player at 12 is a pretty big hindrance for our constant wide attacks.

I'm the same with big Staff, competent but not shining through and Jordan has a lot more to offer all round. He found his feet OK at 10 under the circumstances v Ireland and that is a big asset to have in the team.

Flip of the coin potentially this match, either team could bomb and get embarrassed by the score line or its very tight and gripping for the full 80. Scotland have a point to prove in terms of their tournament this year, try and get back on track. They won't fear England in the slightest, the recent run of success backs that up.

England have to show that they were more than fortunate v France, a game that they managed to close a win on but realistically wasn't hugely inspiring when you think France butchered several chances they normally score and would have been away.

I reckon Scotland have this in them, I can see scoring in the 20's or 30's from both sides. Hope it's a good 'un.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Hes the same height as Itoje, and id say hes more powerful than itoje. The issue is the experience at lock at this level, and thats massive i agree. But SB is the spreadsheet man...he will have known that Martin wasnt making it and could have called up another replacement lock but chose not to. They will have been training with Hill there so he must be happy with the situation.

OK he's about Itoje's height, but it's more about ballast and experience. He's a fair bit lighter with hardly any locking experience. It's not like he's even a seasoned international being asked to cover - mentally he's probably over keen to prove a point.

If he has to come on fairly early it can't do anything other than compromise our scrum.

He's almost certainly faster in open field than Itoje or Chessum but he's 6kg lighter and can't carry their power for the close quarters heavy duty stuff or scrummaging.

I don't really care what's happened in training. That can't be any proxy for the real thing in front of 80,000 when the adrenaline's flying and need for instinct and experience kicks in. Pre Southgate era England football were invincible on penalties on the training pitch.

 

[AlRums]

Has Jordan played much at 12? I thought he was a 10/15?

Seems like a bit of a snub for McDowall.

ST plays like a second receiver, had a lot of success in 2023 when Farrell was so intent on Finn he left a defensive hole.

Maybe this type of play may rear it's head again.

 

[AlRums]

Stop hyping us up. It's just red meat for OTB and Virgin Media in Ireland.

And here!!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I want what your smoking bud

I'm on the snus these days.

 

[AlRums]

I'd go further and predict that, whatever the result :
(1) the losing head coach will be gone before the end of the year, and
(2) the winning head coach will be staying.

So it's make or break for both Townsend & Borthwick

Townsend is one of the most successful Scottish coach in history, second only to Geech and has only lost one out of seven Calcutta Cups as a manager.

In the last two years Scotland have only lost to Ireland, France and South Africa, and the one exception of Italy last year, all ranked well over them at the time.

I really don't see his job on the line.

 

[AlRums]

I'm on the snus these days.

I hope that wasn't a typo and the first letter was supposed to be an "a"

 

[mkersyshull]

OK he's about Itoje's height, but it's more about ballast and experience. He's a fair bit lighter with hardly any locking experience. It's not like he's even a seasoned international being asked to cover - mentally he's probably over keen to prove a point.

If he has to come on fairly early it can't do anything other than compromise our scrum.

He's almost certainly faster in open field than Itoje or Chessum but he's 6kg lighter and can't carry their power for the close quarters heavy duty stuff or scrummaging.

I don't really care what's happened in training. That can't be any proxy for the real thing in front of 80,000 when the adrenaline's flying and need for instinct and experience kicks in. Pre Southgate era England football were invincible on penalties on the training pitch.

On all.rugby Itoje 115kg and Hill 112kg
Ultimate rugby app Itoje 110kg and Hill 112kg
Wikipedia Itoje 118kg and Hill 112kg (which is 6kg)
Club website Itoje 110kg and Hill 112kg
England website Itoje 118kg and Hill 110kg

But what I mean by this, is I'm not sure the weights you read online can be read into too much

 

[AlRums]

Six Nations 2025: Scotland's Finn Russell fit to face England but Darcy Graham out

Scotland fly-half Finn Russell has been declared fit to start Saturday's Six Nations match against England, but Darcy Graham is not involved in the matchday 23.

www.bbc.co.uk

Unusually, Tom English does make some good points.

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

Hand us the Calcutta Cup now. Scotland has no chance

 

[Which Tyler]

Am I weird in feeling robbed that we won't be seeing Hill v Bayliss, preferably in the same position, coming on at the same time?

 

[Geordie]

OK he's about Itoje's height, but it's more about ballast and experience. He's a fair bit lighter with hardly any locking experience. It's not like he's even a seasoned international being asked to cover - mentally he's probably over keen to prove a point.

If he has to come on fairly early it can't do anything other than compromise our scrum.

He's almost certainly faster in open field than Itoje or Chessum but he's 6kg lighter and can't carry their power for the close quarters heavy duty stuff or scrummaging.

I don't really care what's happened in training. That can't be any proxy for the real thing in front of 80,000 when the adrenaline's flying and need for instinct and experience kicks in. Pre Southgate era England football were invincible on penalties on the training pitch.

He's not a fair bit lighter its pretty marginal really. Itoje to be fair should have been a 6 anyway. Hill more than has the power to play there.
Experience is the main issue though...which is where I do agree with you. He's played the odd game for Bath at lock in emergency but the step up to international lock is massive.

I think the plan will be to get Chessum and Itoje through the whole game or bring Hill on for 20 mins...
I think he'll surprise a few, but I guess we'll see on Saturday.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

On all.rugby Itoje 115kg and Hill 112kg
Ultimate rugby app Itoje 110kg and Hill 112kg
Wikipedia Itoje 118kg and Hill 112kg (which is 6kg)
Club website Itoje 110kg and Hill 112kg
England website Itoje 118kg and Hill 110kg

But what I mean by this, is I'm not sure the weights you read online can be read into too much

Either side of spending a huge amount of time on the toilet.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

On all.rugby Itoje 115kg and Hill 112kg
Ultimate rugby app Itoje 110kg and Hill 112kg
Wikipedia Itoje 118kg and Hill 112kg (which is 6kg)
Club website Itoje 110kg and Hill 112kg
England website Itoje 118kg and Hill 110kg

But what I mean by this, is I'm not sure the weights you read online can be read into too much

Tom Curry's listed everywhere as 109 or 110. By that yardstick there's no way that Itoje's not towards the upper end of the weights quoted.

But it's all moot anyway. Pure weight is only one thing, players all have different physical attributes and use their weight differently - Manu was about the same as George.

But it's mad to think that with just one scheduled sub, we could end up with 2 players in Hill and M Smith who have barely played in their positions.

 

[Geordie]

I see Hill has actually got 2 caps and both were as a sub coming in at.....lock. so it's all good

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Hill is not going to be anywhere near as powerful as Itoje at locking activities. You are living in a dreamland.

Weight is also a poor metric used on its own and add to that the experience at actually being/ pushing in a scrum is very different from that needed to flank.

I think this may be a massive issue late in the game if Chessum has to come off. Could lose us the game but I know Coles has had constant injuries this season and hasn't really had a good run of games.