[2025 Six Nations] England vs Scotland - 22/02/25

[Leonormous Boozer]

Maybe France should try Dupont at 15 then he would be the ultimate utility back at 9 10 15

Maybe put Freddie Steward at 12 then he is the ultimate utility back at 12 11 14 15.

Maybe put Ben Earl on the wing to be a real utility player as he already covers the full back row and covered 12 once.

I bet article is just well he can play fly half well and FB well so maybe he can play scrum half well and learn a 3rd full specialist position at international, Smith can do anything!!!! Add this to calls to try Smith at 12 and 13...its mad.

I won't rate his versatility or him as a player until he can grow 8 inches on command and play second row tbh.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Suddenly everyone forgets England have Elliot Daly, Mr utility.

 

[Which Tyler]

It's time to make your mark Steve.

Decade too late, but... not wrong (aside from the whole "decade too late" thing).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (usually whilst bitching about why we can't produce SHs), I've long wished that English coaches could do the whole SH/FH thing the French have down pat, and the Saffers occasionally throw up. So many transferable skills.
Lamb, Ford, Marcus - all would have made brilliant SH/FH options - had they trained it from young enough.

Instead, our age-grade coaches seem to use SH for "not fast enough for wing, not calm enough for FH, not strong enough for centre - guess you're a SH then!"

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Decade too late, but... not wrong (aside from the whole "decade too late" thing).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I've long wished that English coaches could do the whole SH/FH thing the French have down pat, and the Saffers occasionally throw up. So many transferable skills.
Lamb, Ford, Marcus - all would have made brilliant SH/FH options - had they trained it from young enough.

Instead, our age-grade coaches seem to use SH for "not fast enough for wing, not calm enough for FH, not strong enough for centre - guess you're a SH then!"

Same here. Very few top class 9s, I think Murray was our first Lion there since the 70s or 80s and JGP being our best ever is quite damning.

Strange too because Scotland and Wales have each had some cracking 9s.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

View attachment 22876

Numbers seem low, but also are in line with France's numbers - presumably cause turned over lineouts aren't counted as won

Had a quick whizz through the game. My take on our line out:

France starting attacking ours right from the start - they won some and also forced us to tap backwards on other occasions thereby forcing us onto the back foot or into unintended plays. We didn't even make a half hearted attempt on theirs until subs were on after 50 mins. That feels overly passive.

Anyhow, we had 13 throws. Just an analysis on the line outs themselves ignoring the match situation and consequences:

2 thrown to Curry

One clean catch at tail.

One loss at the front to Roumat who's 13cm taller, throw looked OK so well done Monsieur. Against that differential Curry had to be coming forward more.

3 thrown to Martin

One clean catch and one won with an unintended tap back.

One went straight through his hands unopposed. His fault.

5 thrown to Itoje.

One clean off the top, one clean catch.

Two won with unintended tap backs. Includes his only throw from George.

One loss. Itoje didn't look to get too high, but was nowhere near and I suspect LCD will probably get the flak. Just looked a total miscommunication.

3 thrown to Chessum

All cleanly caught. 'nuff said.


So that means our starting 3 jumpers only took high quality possession in the way intended - clean catch or deliberate off the top - 4 times out of 10. It's arguable, but probably bar one occasion I don't think LCD's darts were shocking. Credit to Fra for getting in amongst it in the way we just couldn't.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

England don't seem to ever take this fixture seriously, which is baffling given our recent record against the Scots. We know beating England is Scotland's world cup final and they will throw everything at us yet we always seem to turn up only half arsed and the players never seemed to be that fussed about putting in the effort for it.

Scotland have the best record against us the last 4 years of any side in the world, which is nuts. If that isn't enough to get the English players arses in gear and try get them to take this fixture seriously then nothing will.

 

[Saintjay]

Pretty sure the BBC said the other day England have the worst line out stats of any team in the tournament, so far.

No idea where they got that from or if it is even true.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Had a quick whizz through the game. My take on our line out:

France starting attacking ours right from the start - they won some and also forced us to tap backwards on other occasions thereby forcing us onto the back foot or into unintended plays. We didn't even make a half hearted attempt on theirs until subs were on after 50 mins. That feels overly passive.

Anyhow, we had 13 throws. Just an analysis on the line outs themselves ignoring the match situation and consequences:

2 thrown to Curry

One clean catch at tail.

One loss at the front to Roumat who's 13cm taller, throw looked OK so well done Monsieur. Against that differential Curry had to be coming forward more.

3 thrown to Martin

One clean catch and one won with an unintended tap back.

One went straight through his hands unopposed. His fault.

5 thrown to Itoje.

One clean off the top, one clean catch.

Two won with unintended tap backs. Includes his only throw from George.

One loss. Itoje didn't look to get too high, but was nowhere near and I suspect LCD will probably get the flak. Just looked a total miscommunication.

3 thrown to Chessum

All cleanly caught. 'nuff said.


So that means our starting 3 jumpers only took high quality possession in the way intended - clean catch or deliberate off the top - 4 times out of 10. It's arguable, but probably bar one occasion I don't think LCD's darts were shocking. Credit to Fra for getting in amongst it in the way we just couldn't.

And just thinking about the context a little bit.

Obviously Baxter and Daly's tries came direct from Chessum line out wins.

But Chessum's first take was a bit further out, again clean enabling us to run a backs play which ended up with M Smith knocking on just 5m from the French line.

OK, Chessum came on when the game was opening up, nonetheless, his prowess still ensured those opportunities. Earlier on, T Curry's loss was defensive and that possession ended up with Penaud knocking on 5m out in a last ditch tackle when, on any other day, you'd have bet your house on a French try.

It's clear that a banker ball is necessary. Lawes used to be that guy, Chessum probably is now. Looking at the way the French challenged Itoje, it was clear that he wasn't out jumping them, necessitating the timing to be bang on every time which puts extra pressure on both jumper and thrower.

 

[Flankers' paradise]

genge lcd stuart
itoje martin
chessum willis tcurry
mitchell fin
slade lawrence
sleightholme marcus freeman

george baxter heyes
coles b curry earl
randall daly

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Mostly as expected, but I didn't think Martin would be dropped!
As much as I'm a big fan of Martin I kinda like that Chessum is in the row - we've got enough backrow options without adding locks into the mix

Still not overly keen on Smith at 15 or Daly at 23, but it is what it is what it is what it is what it is what it is what it is what it is what it is

Half thought George might start, but he was good off the bench last week, and it's a relatively green bench so the leadership boost in the final quarter will be good

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I wonder why Borthwick actually bothers with 36 players being in camp when he decides the line up so early.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I wonder why Borthwick actually bothers with 36 players being in camp when he decides the line up so early.

As much as they don't want to be in that role, the remainder have a pretty important job to do mimicking the opposition in training. Training with 25 players would be suicide. A lot of countries have apprentice type positions in the squad too (Diarmuid Mangan in the Ireland squad this week for example whilst he's still a couple years out from breaking into a Leinster 23), as opportunities to give young players exposure and have opportunities woth coaches and other players to see what's expected of them.

Anyway, I predicted England to beat France and lose to Scotland if they play both Smith's. I still back that but only if Russell is fit.

 

[Wasps92]

Think Scotland could expose Smith badly.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Serious point here, but Itoje isn't a tight head lock, doesn't offer that power or smash. Yet he also isn't a line out banker or good loose head lock.

So why on earth is he in the side anymore?

I know he does loads of good flanker things but we brought in Martin to power up the row, then our lineout creeks, so now we bring in chessum to sort that.

Surely that means Martin and Chessum are the best starting duo.

 

[Geordie]

Think Scotland could expose Smith badly.

But he could also cause them havoc aswell....

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Serious point here, but Itoje isn't a tight head lock, doesn't offer that power or smash. Yet he also isn't a line out banker or good loose head lock.

So why on earth is he in the side anymore?

I know he does loads of good flanker things but we brought in Martin to power up the row, then our lineout creeks, so now we bring in chessum to sort that.

Surely that means Martin and Chessum are the best starting duo.

agree with you, may as well just drop the captain for sh1ts and giggles

 

[AlRums]

Pretty sure the BBC said the other day England have the worst line out stats of any team in the tournament, so far.

No idea where they got that from or if it is even true.

Guinness Men's Six Nations Statistics - 2025 - Guinness Men's Six Nations

Explore comprehensive statistics for the season 2025 for the M6N competition. Dive into detailed insights, player performances, team standings, and more.

www.sixnationsrugby.com

 

[Jakedood]

Intriguing from England. Scotland with Finn and Kinghorn do like to kick long with regularity but there's definitely enough presence to pressure Smith in the middle of the park with traditionally more adaptability than the French would show.
Chessum has looked dynamic off the bench twice this six nations, and Scotland's scrum isn't the dominant force of say the French so I think England have backed off that to counter the threat in the air of Gilchrist/Gray/Ritchie.
I think the duality of the Smith's splitting time behind the first and second pods of forwards actually looked effective in attack. May all come down to the quality of ball Scotland can get, which was completely nullified by Ireland and could be by England with that rapid back row

 

[BrokenWing]

Stupid question, what is meant by a lineout take in that context?

And why have England won two more lineouts than they've "taken"

 

[Jakedood]

Stupid question, what is meant by a lineout take in that context?

And why have England won two more lineouts than they've "taken"

It might involve balls taken in the lineout vs a win on overthrow? Not sure at all, but either way pure lineout takes are a poor stat, it should be an efficiency rate per throw eg 82%