[2024 Six Nations] Italy vs England - 03/02/24

[Geordie]

I'm intrigued with the back row selection aswell though.

 

[Scotty]

I'm guessing we'll see Daly on one wing for experience.

So my guess is

Mitchell
F Smith
Daly
Dingwall
Slade
Freeman
Steward

Although there is a chance Borthwick proves us al correct and proves to be an actually ****** and starts Ford at 10.

If he does, england are done until SB is gone. I'm guessing he's going to disappoint us with his gameplan and selection.

FSmith is the form 10 in the prem no doubt and 100% agree he should be starting in the absence of MSmith....but like you say with Daly, he may start Ford for experience given a new centre parnership. Im not done if it happens as long as smith gets solid time off the bench, chance to earn the shirt as he is still young. Tbh i do think Smith will start.

I wonder if the plan would have been start
Care Smith Lawrence Slade
With Mitchell FSmith Dingwall on the bench

 

[dirty harry]

And this is my point...

SB made all the right decisions in 2023, he closed ranks, pulled tight and played low risk rugby and made them incredibly difficult to beat!

The question is, will he now turn the tide and start to build progressively toward the next RWC?
Or will he have a crack at the 2024 6N and neglect the longer term view?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

And this is my point...

SB made all the right decisions in 2023, he closed ranks, pulled tight and played low risk rugby and made them incredibly difficult to beat!

The question is, will he now turn the tide and start to build progressively toward the next RWC?
Or will he have a crack at the 2024 6N and neglect the longer term view?

I don't think you can say that SB made all the right decisions at all. Firstly he had Farrell as captain which only ever cost us points and lost us favour with the refs and secondly he kept on with Billy V who only ever had a negative impact on the game.

There is an unknown argument to say that SB actually cost us a place in the final with his decisions.

We've got to remember that SB had more time with that WC squad than he'll ever get with another England squad until the WC and the only attack he came up with was to kick a high ball. I think it's fair to say England won despite SB as coach as we seemed to do all in our power to lose every game.

 

[dirty harry]

I don't think you can say that SB made all the right decisions at all. Firstly he had Farrell as captain which only ever cost us points and lost us favour with the refs and secondly he kept on with Billy V who only ever had a negative impact on the game.

There is an unknown argument to say that SB actually cost us a place in the final with his decisions.

We've got to remember that SB had more time with that WC squad than he'll ever get with another England squad until the WC and the only attack he came up with was to kick a high ball. I think it's fair to say England won despite SB as coach as we seemed to do all in our power to lose every game.

I cant agree with this, SB inherited a team broken, struggling and he managed to develop a culture trust and competitiveness. No coach will ever have a 100% player selection record, but as long as those selections benefit the group, which Faz and Billy certainly did.

If you remember there were a group of people discussing if England would even get out of the group, they over performed V Argentina and SA massively, and could count the RWC as a massive success.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm intrigued with the back row selection aswell though.

Both Martin and Isiekwe dropping out does make it harder to predict

Wouldn't be surprised at either of:
6. Pearson
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt

6. Coles
7. Pearson
8. Earl

 

[Jimbo]

There is just something satisfying about Earl being in there, it just gives the pack some energy and go forward which was missing for a while.

 

[Saintjay]

I cant agree with this, SB inherited a team broken, struggling and he managed to develop a culture trust and competitiveness. No coach will ever have a 100% player selection record, but as long as those selections benefit the group, which Faz and Billy certainly did.

If you remember there were a group of people discussing if England would even get out of the group, they over performed V Argentina and SA massively, and could count the RWC as a massive success.

We beat Fiji, Japan, Argentina, Chilli, Samoa. We should beat those teams so it wasn't any great shakes. Lets not kid ourselves, we had an easy draw and quater final. Getting to a semi-final was a minimum requirement It will count as successful yes, but realistically it wasn't a great achievement. The lack of attack was awful.

Under Borthwick we've had record loses at home to France and Fiji, and managed a one point win vs Samoa. We also lost to a broken Wales team pre WC more messed up than we were.

I remain to be convinced the players trust him or are happy with what they are being asked to do. It's a sad indication of where England are if beating Argentina is over performing. Even if for once, us beating them with 14 men was actually playing smart rugby given the situation.

 

[Scotty]

Both Martin and Isiekwe dropping out does make it harder to predict

Wouldn't be surprised at either of:
6. Pearson
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt

6. Coles
7. Pearson
8. Earl

Wouldnt Coles at 6 mean Ewels at 20? Give me Coles at 20 and Underhill at 6

 

[Scotty]

I cant agree with this, SB inherited a team broken, struggling and he managed to develop a culture trust and competitiveness. No coach will ever have a 100% player selection record, but as long as those selections benefit the group, which Faz and Billy certainly did.

If you remember there were a group of people discussing if England would even get out of the group, they over performed V Argentina and SA massively, and could count the RWC as a massive success.

I dont 100% disagree with you(except Billy, he was trash and a very bad call). We played better than expectation and even though it wasnt exciting rugby as we went for a stripped back gameplan. This almost got us to a WC final, as in we were winning and the better team for a good portion of the game.

So im not doom and gloom over SB but i just hope the game can now start to develop passed that basic gameplan and implement an actual finctioning attack that we didnt have and play to the strengths of all the new players in the squad.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

We've got to pepper in experience with new caps for the pack as well.

I'm guessing

Marler
George
Cole
Itoje
Cheasum
Underhill
Earl
Dombrant

But we could also see Pearson at 6, underhill at 7 and Earl at 8. Hopefully we don't pick up any more injuries though. Very worrying.

 

[higgik]

We've got to pepper in experience with new caps for the pack as well.

I'm guessing

Marler
George
Cole
Itoje
Cheasum
Underhill
Earl
Dombrant

But we could also see Pearson at 6, underhill at 7 and Earl at 8. Hopefully we don't pick up any more injuries though. Very worrying.

Think Earl and Dombrandt play a similar game style of being the runner off someone else and defending much wider.
Think we need someone to do the hard yards.
I would go
Roots
Underhill
Earl

 

[TommiG88]

Marler George Cole
Itoje Chessum
Pearson Underhill
Earl

Mitchell
Smith

Freeman

Dingwall Slade

Feyi-Waboso

Steward

—
That would be my team

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Would be a risk playing Marler and Underhill, neither have played since early December - Underhill has plenty of experience of returning from injury though

I really hope we see Obano in there, either starting or bench

Wouldnt Coles at 6 mean Ewels at 20? Give me Coles at 20 and Underhill at 6

Yeah, I'd prefer that - just thinking what SB is most likely to pick

 

[dirty harry]

We beat Fiji, Japan, Argentina, Chilli, Samoa. We should beat those teams so it wasn't any great shakes. Lets not kid ourselves, we had an easy draw and quater final. Getting to a semi-final was a minimum requirement It will count as successful yes, but realistically it wasn't a great achievement. The lack of attack was awful.

Under Borthwick we've had record loses at home to France and Fiji, and managed a one point win vs Samoa. We also lost to a broken Wales team pre WC more messed up than we were.

I remain to be convinced the players trust him or are happy with what they are being asked to do. It's a sad indication of where England are if beating Argentina is over performing. Even if for once, us beating them with 14 men was actually playing smart rugby given the situation.

Given Englands results under Eddie, and losing to Fiji in a record home defeat pre RWC yes, beating Fiji was an over performance IMO. A Fiji team that beat aus, and should've beaten Wales.
You keep comparing England to the power of 6N rugby, but they arent, Werner Argentina favourites for that first game?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Times reporting "indications" that both Ford and Furbank may start.

 

[Geordie]

Both Martin and Isiekwe dropping out does make it harder to predict

Wouldn't be surprised at either of:
6. Pearson
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt

6. Coles
7. Pearson
8. Earl

Yeah im torn between will he go for a "flanker" at 6..or a taller "lock" style 6

I still cant help thinking Roots is going to be in the equation.

 

[Geordie]

Times reporting "indications" that both Ford and Furbank may start.

Furbank at 12?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I still cant help thinking Roots is going to be in the equation.

Completely forgot he existed,
Wouldn't be surprised with him at 6 and Coles on the bench covering lock

 

[Saintjay]

Furbank at 12?

Would have thought Dingwall would be better in the centres with Furbank at 15.