[2023 Six Nations] England vs Italy - 12 February 2023

[TRF_Olyy]

Bloody hell I forgot to Barbeary existed, he's not played since rd.2

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yep.

Time's moved on but I always thought Morgan was discarded way too soon. Same age as Lawes and Youngs.

And the Barbeary enigma. Looking at the way we've been scrabbling around for hookers and with George's age / LCD's emigration he wouldn't be human if he hadn't occasionally thought 'what if'.

I really liked Morgan, he was much more of my kind of 8 compared to Billy who I've never warmed to an Morgan seemed to be dropped for Billy even when he was playing better albeit I'm not sure his form has been great this whole time.

 

[Jimbo]

I really liked Morgan, he was much more of my kind of 8 compared to Billy who I've never warmed to an Morgan seemed to be dropped for Billy even when he was playing better albeit I'm not sure his form has been great this whole time.

Current Billy belongs no where near international, however how he could in his prime have been anything but near on the perfect 8 is beyond me, he would make yards whilst being double and triple teamed, remember for Sarries was often the difference in tight games at the latter stages of the European ***les, he is now the past but let's not pretend he wasn't once genuine world class.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Current Billy belongs no where near international, however how he could in his prime have been anything but near on the perfect 8 is beyond me, he would make yards whilst being double and triple teamed, remember for Sarries was often the difference in tight games at the latter stages of the European ***les, he is now the past but let's not pretend he wasn't once genuine world class.

I'd have always preferred a more mobile and intelligent Read type 8 to a Billy one (which I know is personal preference). But even in his prime he wasn't an intelligent player and you did always lose something in the backrow but then I guess you gained a lump of a carrier.

Talking about Morgan, we also had Narraway who was discarded early as well. Coincidence that they both played for Gloucester?

 

[Jimbo]

I'd have always preferred a more mobile and intelligent Read type 8 to a Billy one (which I know is personal preference). But even in his prime he wasn't an intelligent player and you did always lose something in the backrow but then I guess you gained a lump of a carrier.

I agree on personal preferences but your pick will be based on many variables, pool of players style of play etc, it's not logical to simply say I want an intelligent running 8 then have a really small mobile 6 and 7 which lacks any carrying ability, I think you are doing BV a bit of a disservice here, I am not pretending he was the most intelligent 8 ever seen but he did run decoy lines and was pretty good offloading and link play especially with Mako, carrying into traffic he excelled at but that doesn't mean it was the single component of his game, The player he was and now is are not the same thing, based on current stock SB need to utilise someone more dynamic than a brute, when available Mercer is the obvious candidate until then Dombrandt is probably the answer, at-least with these two selections the expectations of the way they play is not hugely different and doesn't require changing other personnel to maintain balance.

 

[Scotty]

England by 30

Jinxed it again!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd have always preferred a more mobile and intelligent Read type 8 to a Billy one (which I know is personal preference). But even in his prime he wasn't an intelligent player and you did always lose something in the backrow but then I guess you gained a lump of a carrier.

Talking about Morgan, we also had Narraway who was discarded early as well. Coincidence that they both played for Gloucester?

James Forrester was another Glaws what might have been 8.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

James Forrester was another Glaws what might have been 8.

I wonder if there is any truth or massive coincidence that Gloucester players just don't get called up to England as much. Probably just coincidence but they've had some brilliant backs that don't get a look in for years gone by.

 

[TommiG88]

Well this is the most nervous I've been for an England italy game.

Had been offered a ticket but decided against it. Especially with the Super Bowl on tonight.

 

[Geordie]

England really need to put a marker down in this game.

Anything but a controlled dominant win will not be good enough.

 

[TommiG88]

England really need to put a marker down in this game.

Anything but a controlled dominant win will not be good enough.

I will accept a win, even if it's uncontrolled and the opposite of dominant

 

[BPM]

I wonder if there is any truth or massive coincidence that Gloucester players just don't get called up to England as much. Probably just coincidence but they've had some brilliant backs that don't get a look in for years gone by.

There were definitely periods where certain teams were heavily favoured and players from other clubs struggled to get a look in, even if they were individually good. Irish, Newcastle and Sale could have all said similar to Gloucester over the years though. I don't think that's been the case in recent years. There's plenty to dislike about Eddie Jones, but he didn't have a club bias.

Players like Simpson-Daniel were a bit like Radwan is today but also with the added element of being very injury prone.

 

[ncurd]

I think people forget Italy usually push teams for the first half for the best part of a decade now. I'd hope we pull away in the second especially when we use our bench if Farrell comes off (he won't). Let's not panic too soon of Italy don't fall apart at the slightest hint of playing rugby

 

[Geordie]

Players like Simpson-Daniel were a bit like Radwan is today but also with the added element of being very injury prone.

Interestingly in a recent interview Radwan has confirmed Jones told him he must improve his high ball defence, and general defence.
I've got faith in what Walder and Mark Wilson are doing here (falcons) now so hopefully Mark can sort that aspect of his game out.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I don't have a read on England at all (having picked them to win the tournament!). I like Slade and a non-Youngs at 9. Italy starting Padovani (great club player) on the wing ahead of Bruno (waaaay more international potential) is extremely conservative. Italy were flattered by a comatose France last week.

England by 23

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Apologies if posted.

Italy: 15 Ange Capuozzo, 14 Edoardo Padovani, 13 Juan Ignacio Brex, 12 Luca Morisi, 11 Tommaso Menoncello, 10 Tommaso Allan, 9 Stephen Varney, 8 Lorenzo Cannone, 7 Michele Lamaro (c), 6 Sebastian Negri, 5 Federico Ruzza, 4 Niccolo' Cannone, 3 Marco Riccioni, 2 Giamoco Nicotera, 1 Danilo Fischetti
Replacements: 16 Luca Bigi, 17 Federico Zani, 18 Simone Ferrari, 19 Edoardo Iachizzi, 20 Jake Polledri, 21 Manuel Zuliani, 22 Alessandro Fusco, 23 Pierre Bruno

 

[HamJan]

I'd have always preferred a more mobile and intelligent Read type 8 to a Billy one (which I know is personal preference). But even in his prime he wasn't an intelligent player and you did always lose something in the backrow but then I guess you gained a lump of a carrier.

Talking about Morgan, we also had Narraway who was discarded early as well. Coincidence that they both played for Gloucester?

I remember James Forrester as well. He had real pace.

 

[Geordie]

I remember James Forrester as well. He had real pace.

Been so many.

Anthony Allen should have been England's 12 for years. Never happened etc

Back to today.
Key aspects I'm looking at in particular:
Chessum to continue where he left off last week.

Sinckler to continue the huge improvement he showed last week.

Itoje to turn up the performance

The midfields performance in attack and defence.

Willis to really show what he's capable of...unfair but it almost feels like it's last chance saloon for him..

Dombrandt to catch the ball...

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Interestingly in a recent interview Radwan has confirmed Jones told him he must improve his high ball defence, and general defence.
I've got faith in what Walder and Mark Wilson are doing here (FALCONS) now so hopefully Mark can sort that aspect of his game out.

Thank god you clarified that, your username was throwing me right off.

 

[BrokenWing]

There's plenty to dislike about Eddie Jones, but he didn't have a club bias.

Did he even know which teams the players came from?