[2023 Six Nations] England vs Italy - 12 February 2023

[IT157]

We don't know what conversations have been had. It's only bad management if the communication has been poor.

I'd like to think Borthwick has been transparent with his selection discussions.

Ben Curry had a chance to keep Willis out of the side but didn't really take the opportunity so it's not a huge surprise to see this change. He could have dropped Ludlam and brought Willis in at 6 but he did more to warrant keeping his place.

Yep. Ludlam was one of our better players vs. Scotland.

 

[BPM]

Which

Vice captain being someone who will play 60-70mins, tops, definitely leans that way.

Yep … which just blunts the attacking options on the bench.

Farrell gets to play with centres. Smith gets to play with someone who wants to play 10 from 12. Dumb.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Why on earth are Italy starting Varney again, he stank vs France.

 

[Scotty]

This is the issue for me … being captain doesn't mean Farrell has to play the full 80 but I have a horrible feeling he will.

There's almost no point in having the bench to create 'fireworks' if we're going to put Farrell the human handbrake in the middle of it.

The other issue is if slade or Lawrence goes down and non of the back 3, nor 23 cover centres so would mean smith faz unfortunatly.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The other issue is if slade or Lawrence goes down and non of the back 3, nor 23 cover centres so would mean smith faz unfortunatly.

Well now you've gone and jinxed it

 

[Saintjay]

An incident at scrum half. Ben Youngs returns for the Wales match. Youngs-Smith-Farell, lovely.

 

[IT157]

An incident at scrum half. Ben Youngs returns for the Wales match. Youngs-Smith-Farell, lovely.

Youngs should be nowhere near the squad again.

However, I have a sneaking suspicion he will be back for the Wales game.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

What happened with this thread?

 

[BPM]

Me too. Although at least JvP and Mitchell are getting the chance to keep him out.

Youngs has masses of experience and 'credit in the bank', but at least Mitchell is getting an opportunity.

 

[Scotty]

What happened with this thread?

We're happy about selection forthe first time in 7 years and dont know how to process it!

 

[Which Tyler]

We're happy about selection for the first time in 17 years and don't know how to process it!

FTFY

 

[AlRums]

We're happy about selection forthe first time in 7 years and dont know how to process it!

Why do I get the feeling that may change by Sunday night?

 

[ncurd]

Meh Mako and Farrell are still selected still it feels like the first selection which has been a net positive in 3 years.

 

[Saintjay]

What happened with this thread?

An outbreak of moral was detected. Normal service will resume shortly.

 

[Teddington Logic]

Overall the selection is pretty good, and scrapping the dual play maker is very welcome

However
1) There is a fundamental contradiction on the bench. You can bring all the exciting backs on to open up the game that you like, but then to have have Cole and Isiekwe ambling along in the middle of the pitch like last week in the last 15 mins means that your strategy will break down
2) No one is concerned about facing a team with Faz at 10, especially since his kicking stats (both International and Premiership) dropped, because you know 100% what he will do as he offers negligible running threat.

SB has made major steps forwards, but I fear the journey is a route to Leicester tactics which will be adequate and respectable, but against top level competition will get found out. SB still plays to a system and a plan which will only be reinforced when Evans goes. It is a strategy for mid table, not an attempt to win

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

When did Isiekwe get this reputation as some big lumbering giant? I've seen a few people suggest it now. But the man is incredibly athletic and one of the better ball-carrying locks around IMO. He can absolutely come on and up the tempo.

As for Cole, in my opinion he is the single best tighthead in the league for exciting backs to play behind because he's the the one who's going to get them the best ball to play with. Mako can come on and offer some added impetus ball in hand; Cole can just focus on securing that ball.

 

[IT157]

When did Isiekwe get this reputation as some big lumbering giant? I've seen a few people suggest it now. But the man is incredibly athletic and one of the better ball-carrying locks around IMO. He can absolutely come on and up the tempo.

As for Cole, in my opinion he is the single best tighthead in the league for exciting backs to play behind because he's the the one who's going to get them the best ball to play with. Mako can come on and offer some added impetus ball in hand; Cole can just focus on securing that ball.

Yeah, I thought that was a weird description for him.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

As for Cole, in my opinion he is the single best tighthead in the league for exciting backs to play behind because he's the the one who's going to get them the best ball to play with. Mako can come on and offer some added impetus ball in hand; Cole can just focus on securing that ball.

Once in 80 mins last week. Once.

And Mako was beyond ****.

At this point they're much less mutton dressed as lamb, they're more my hangover **** dressed as last night's ill-advised doner with extra chilli sauce.

VRR and Heyes please.

 

[Jimbo]

Mitchell/Smith/Arundell comin vs tired legs could be fireworks
Bit of a glass cannon though - great if we wanna go balls to the wall, but not really a bench to close out a game

I by no means disagree, however many were moaning last week the lack of impact the likes of Cole and Youngs make not sure how I would select but defiantly dammed either way.

It gives me no confidence that Borthwick knows what he is doing that Ben Curry has been totally discarded after one game and we have a totally new centre partnership.

Interesting point but it all depends on the mind set, if SB is trying to get the best squad who he can get battle hardened between now and the WC without too many projects this kind of makes sense, plus there isn't much to choose Between B Curry and Willis so if one hits the ground running you'd go with him, conversely if Willis under performs he should have similar expectations. We probably need to all keep in mind some of the decisions are going to be based on best he can do between now and the end of the WC which will not always correlate to best overall in his tenure.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I thought you said you wanted to abandon the Smith/Farrell combination?

Yep. But I was talking about what I thought Borthwick would do…..

Anyway on to the actual selection.

Front 5 - fine although Cole feels more starter than sub.

Back row. Looks like we're back to the old days of 6.5s then. I don't actually think that's a bad thing at all if the players are of the right calibre. Hope Willis goes v well.

Half backs. If Farrell plays, which he will, then he's in the right shirt.

Centres. I like both players. But a brand new partnership and all I've seen of Lawrence recently has been at 13. I'm sure there's been loads of chat on here about how much he has / hasn't played 12 but I can't be arsed to look it up - is he out of position? Is Slade properly fit?

Back 3 - logical / consistent although I don't think either wing starts if everyone's fit and firing

Bench - I've mentioned Cole, Mako's meh and Arundell's lucky to be there at this stage of his return - just hope he doesn't feel the pressure to force it and is set back by mistakes. Hope Walker gets some decent game time.

If people are irritated it's more by changing from last week than this selection. What was the point of that midfield and Curry if they were to be ditched after one game? We have precious few opportunities before the RWC now.

And while Italy have improved, let's not over hype them. They're away from home and if they play as they did last week they'll give us opportunities that we won't have to work too hard for.