[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

After this 6n can Borthwick make as many changes as he wants to the squad, which will be for the world Cup warm ups in August..

Think there could be a few changes...certainly to the wider squad...

I think the rules are 5 per international series and then a complete restart after the world cup

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Just the two locks did ok today.

 

[Geordie]

I think the rules are 5 per international series and then a complete restart after the world cup

Ah right cheers.

 

[TommiG88]

I will actively miss next weeks game.

 

[Geordie]

I will actively miss next weeks game.

Yeah I'm sure I'm busy aswell.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

To put a balanced view on this, we got monstered by the second best team in the world on the 4th game in from a new coaching set up trying to fix 3 years worth of rubbish coaching/ tactics.

I know my heart said we had a chance but on paper we didn't at all.

Some things that did really worry me though.

Itoje being monstered by every lock ever these days (slight exaggeration). Our back has lacked bite and size for a number of years and we have been carrying Itoje for the last 3. Yesterday should have had ribbons and Chessum who both look ahead of Itoje. Yes Itoje did disrupt some rucks yesterday but as a lock he didn't do his main duties. He is too small to play lock at international level.

The ruck was another massive issue. I look back at the Lancaster era and we struggled to adapt to the breakdown when the opposition put numbers in. Today was the same, really bizarre that a load of professional rugby players couldn't figure out they they needed to support the ball carrier more and provide better numbers in the rucks.

Is this a club issue where the players are over coaches and only play to instructions?

The last point is our wide defence, this has been an issue for at least the last 10 years that I can remember. All different coaches and up set ups etc seem to have the same issue. I don't know enough about the backs to comment but something seems off.

All in all really worried for next week.

 

[BrokenWing]

We seemed to both not put enough players into the ruck, and at the same time not have enough players out of the ruck.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

We seemed to both not put enough players into the ruck, and at the same time not have enough players out of the ruck.

It seemed like the players were trying to work a pod system but either the ball didn't really get there or got caught up in the ruck and because the pod was around the 3rd man out they couldn't get back to the ruck in time to support the ball carrier.

 

[ncurd]

, we got monstered by the second best team in the world

I know my heart said we had a chance but on paper we didn't at all.

I think we all though we had a chance because France had been misfiring all tournament. They didn't yesterday and even Ireland would struggle to beat them playing like that. That doesn't excuse tolhe scoreline but it does excuse the loss.

 

[Geordie]

I think we all though we had a chance because France had been misfiring all tournament. They didn't yesterday and even Ireland would struggle to beat them playing like that. That doesn't excuse tolhe scoreline but it does excuse the loss.

France would have beaten any team in the world yesterday. The played at a pace, power, physicality and tempo that few could have lived with...sadly we just couldn't cope at all.

We'll learn from that...there should be some players really hurting looking to make amends against Ireland.

 

[BrokenWing]

Usually you can lose and still take positives from a game…

As far as I'm concerned, there were none yesterday.

 

[mike1]

Our forwards got well beaten, but the backs gave them no platform...

France kicked more than ever and we just couldn't deal with it. Multiple dropped high balls, dropped bobbling balls, avoidable 50:22, loads of space for chips through, second to bouncing balls and, to me, it looked like a lack of pace, too. Defence in the outside channels was exposed inside two minutes (a recurring issue) and in contact the number of times they just got run over was huge. On the other side of the ball we kicked poorly, often without contesting and didn't manage to find any composure when it was badly needed.

 

[BrokenWing]

Our forwards got well beaten, but the backs gave them no platform...

Surely this is a circular problem?

 

[mike1]

Surely this is a circular problem?

Indeed. But there's already been plenty of posts on the forwards not giving the backs a platform, so wanted to talk about the backs.

 

[BrokenWing]

The best way to deal with a team kicking well is to try and not give them the time to kick well.

The 50:22 was a moment of genius from the best 9 if not best player in the world.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm baffled we have gone back to minimal presence at the ruck in both attack and defence. We did that years ago and it failed then, we then recognised it and changed it with Underhill and Curry and immediately were topping the tables for turnovers won, now we have reverted back to a tactic that doesn't work. It absolutely stinks of rugby league coaching, where the ruck is all but ignored in attack and defence. I don't know why Union has this obsession with league coaches who clearly do not understand the importance of rucks. The French were constantly slowing us down and pressuring our 9, who was already slow and lacked confidence anyway. We simply sat back and let the French play at whatever pace they wanted.

I cannot think of a single time this minimally resourcing of rucks has ever worked for us. We always end up struggling to secure our own ball and struggling to slow down opposition once momentum builds, leading to individuals doing stupid crap and giving away penalties.

FFS just resource the god damn rucks correctly! We have players who have shown they can cause havoc at rucks and yet we are barely utilising that skillset, instead having them standing in a defensive line to make tackles.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Still League but we should've gone for Forshaw instead of Sinfield, would've been significantly cheaper as well

 

[Geordie]

Interesting some of tigers have said that George Martin is moving to Lock permanently. Now that could be a huge thing for England. A lock with his aggressive juggernaut tackling and just plain physicality is invaluable.

4 Martin (Itoje to prove himself)
5 Chessum
6 Hill
7 T.Curry / Underhill (if he ever returns)
8 Mercer / Cunningham South/ T.Willis

Suddenly there's physicality, mobility, aggression and power

 

[Rinkadink]

Sam Jefferies should be in the back row conversation if he can stay fit. He hits like a truck, soft hands, can cover lock and has speed n big engine (and has been involved touring with the squad).

Just throwing it out there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Martin steamrolled Reid today in the carry.