[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

[BPM]

I feel OK about yesterday. Reading this thread you'd think Scotland had hammered us by a huge margin.

I don't think we saw a huge improvement, but perhaps I'm less disappointed because I didn't expect much …

Scotland are a good side and I started yesterday with hope rather than expectation. Relatively speaking, they're a side who are getting better, we have been a side getting worse. Hopefully Borthwick can address the slide, but it was never likely to happen overnight and losing yesterday doesn't change that much IMO. We were never going to be in the hunt for the ***le either way.

Italy putting in a big performance today is a good thing too. Any complacency that might have been there, surely isn't now and if we do win, perhaps it becomes a bit more credit worthy than the usual expectation of 'it's only Italy'.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I feel OK about yesterday. Reading this thread you'd think Scotland had hammered us by a huge margin.

I don't think we saw a huge improvement, but perhaps I'm less disappointed because I didn't expect much …

Scotland are a good side and I started yesterday with hope rather than expectation. Relatively speaking, they're a side who are getting better, we have been a side getting worse. Hopefully Borthwick can address the slide, but it was never likely to happen overnight and losing yesterday doesn't change that much IMO. We were never going to be in the hunt for the ***le either way.

Italy putting in a big performance today is a good thing too. Any complacency that might have been there, surely isn't now and if we do win, perhaps it becomes a bit more credit worthy than the usual expectation of 'it's only Italy'.

Yeah I'm with you. Didn't expect the world to change but I'm happy with the improvements I did see. It was a close game and there were some great English efforts but some players just really don't look up to international rugby.

 

[Jashay]

"Team weren't good at anything"

Borthwick not mincing words there. Identifying the problems is one thing though, is he going to have time to fix them before the WC?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Be interesting to see what side he puts out if both Lawes and Slade are back, as it mentions in that article
Would be harsh to drop Ludlam, but then I don't think he's as good a 7 as any of the other options - Dombrandt didn't have a good game but not bad enough to be dropped from 8 for Ludlam

Slade straight in at 13? If so that's harsh on Marchant who didn't get really a fair crack having to play outside that 10/12 - a Smith/Farrell/Slade 10/12/13 would be even less inspiring that the one we put out vs Scotland

 

[Scotty]

Be interesting to see what side he puts out if both Lawes and Slade are back, as it mentions in that article
Would be harsh to drop Ludlam, but then I don't think he's as good a 7 as any of the other options - Dombrandt didn't have a good game but not bad enough to be dropped from 8 for Ludlam

Slade straight in at 13? If so that's harsh on Marchant who didn't get really a fair crack having to play outside that 10/12 - a Smith/Farrell/Slade 10/12/13 would be even less inspiring that the one we put out vs Scotland

Dombrandt didnt have a great game but mainly though dropping balls yet you saw what he was trying to do so id say he gets another shot. Ludlams was good but its a tough call but he isnt a dustructive ball carrier or a jackler but his workrate and engine are insane, i rate him but worry he has a ceiling. Id be happy with Willis Dombrandt Ludlam tbh. Wish THill could bench.

I think we will see JVP Faz Watson Manu Slade OHC(still not on the Hype train here) Steward, Youngs Smith Marchant on the bench.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

No idea who he'll play but it should be whoever he thinks our strongest team is. We can't say 'only Italy' as we need the continuity and we feel ripe for picking, although Italy have seldom been able to string together consecutive good performances.

Although critical of Itoje I can't see any changes in the front 5. We definitely need more aggression and presence in the back row and, if fit, Lawes will come straight back in. Curry was game but looked a little out of his depth so I wouldn't be surprised to see him replaced. Who knows what view they'll take of Willis this week? Ludlam did some good stuff but Willis has the higher ceiling.

Behind, whatever the question is, the answer is simply not Farrell at 12. It just isn't. Until that's fixed our attack will flounder.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think putting put a B-Side vs Italy was ever an option regardless of respective round 1 performances - the side might change from last week but it won't be because it's "only" Italy, it'll be because Borthwick is trying to find his best side

 

[Geordie]

Be silly to say its "only Italy" these days....they are starting to play some good rugby!

Cant see there being many changes....hopefully Kelly is back. and we can finally develop an actual 12.

 

[LIONSxv]

Be silly to say its "only Italy" these days....they are starting to play some good rugby!

Cant see there being many changes....hopefully Kelly is back. and we can finally develop an actual 12.

I've seen Kelly a few times live, strikes me as a bit of all rounder. Good passer, tackles well , carries quite well. He just seems a solid nuts and bolts sort of 12. I haven't however seen him kick that much.
Anyone seen what his kicking game is like ?

 

[Geordie]

I've seen Kelly a few times live, strikes me as a bit of all rounder. Good passer, tackles well , carries quite well. He just seems a solid nuts and bolts sort of 12. I haven't however seen him kick that much.
Anyone seen what his kicking game is like ?

Yeah exactly....played a big part in Tigers winning the ***le. Exactly what we need in the backline to work with.

Add in Seb Atkinson and possibly Ollie Hartley...get Max Ojomoh on track and suddenly we start to see a few options at 12 coming through.

 

[TommiG88]

Arundell back in the squad for Murley I think.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Arundell for Murley is a **** call

 

[Saintjay]

 

[Saintjay]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So it's:
Blamire, Murley and Porter out
Arundell and Slade (and George) in

 

[TommiG88]

Arundell for Murley is a **** call

Is Arundell in the EPS?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

.

Arundell for Murley is a **** call

On form, yes. On potential, no.

Neither are likely starters or even bench candidates right now. Murley is currently just another good club player who's untested at international level. Like OHC and Freeman.

Which isn't to denigrate Murley at all BTW. But Arundell might just have that little bit extra, he might just be that RWC bolter.

Seems tough on Murley, but I can see why Borthwick would want Arundell involved. It's a decision looking at the short / medium term future, but not tomorrow. On form / game time you can't pick Arundell in a 23, but we also shouldn't read too much into his v rusty return last week - he'll quickly get better than that.

 

[Becca]

Murley has to be injured, surely ?

 

[Reiser99]

Maybe this is how desperate Borthwick is for some random spark.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Murley should be starting he's literally the best form of any of our back three options atm
If he's dropping anyone (and I'm on record, which will probably come back to bite me in the bum when he scores a wonder try, that Arundell shouldn't be in the EPS) then it should be for Freeman seeing as he's there was a fullback option too