[2022 Six Nations] England vs Wales (26/02/22)

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

25 players retained by Eddie:
LP: Genge, Marler, Rodd
HK: Cowan-Dickie, George
TP: Sinckler, Stuart
LK: Itoje, Isiekwe, Ewels, Chessum
BR: Curry, Lawes, Simmonds, Dombrandt
SH: Randall, Youngs
FH: Ford, Smith
CT: Daly, Slade, Tuilagi
B3: Malins, Nowell, Steward

Imagine that Rodd and Chessum will drop out, although I'm ever so slightly expecting a 6:2.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

All this 'proud Welshman' feeling 'Irish' etc is all BS. International recognition shouldn't be a choice. The plastic welsh and Irish who's parents and them have always lived in England shouldn't have any right to play for the counties of their grandparents. They are in no way welsh or Irish.

The question has to be asked, if they and their parents are born and raised in one country what gives them the right to represent another? A county they have never lived in, nor their parents.

What right should they have, however much they hate it they're English. Same for any other 3 generation person in a different country.

It's hard to take anyone from a colonialist country's view on this seriously. The privilege in this post reeks.

Plastic Welsh, Irish, Jamaican, Pakistani etc... who visit regularly, know their culture, don't consider themselves English and were only born there in most cases as a direct result of, at best, poor leadership from Westminster in their home country? (At worst government backed terrorist organisations threatening death etc...)

Just to flip it, why should England benefit from these people who only stay out of comfortability and emigration not being easily accessible? And they do benefit on a far grander scale than international rugby.

I hate the term plastic [nationality], Immigrant people the world over have endured too much **** to be ridiculed for or denied their familial nationality.

Now of course there has to be rules and I think the grandparent rule is about right, beyond that there'll still be cases of people who identify more with their country of heritage but it, rightly, becomes less and less as integration progresses and racism/xenophobia fades.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It's hard to take anyone from a colonialist country's view on this seriously. The privilege in this post reeks.

Plastic Welsh, Irish, Jamaican, Pakistani etc... who visit regularly, know their culture, don't consider themselves English and were only born there in most cases as a direct result of, at best, poor leadership from Westminster in their home country? (At worst government backed terrorist organisations threatening death etc...)

Just to flip it, why should England benefit from these people who only stay out of comfortability and emigration not being easily accessible? And they do benefit on a far grander scale than international rugby.

I hate the term plastic [nationality], Immigrant people the world over have endured too much **** to be ridiculed for or denied their familial nationality.

Now of course there has to be rules and I think the grandparent rule is about right, beyond that there'll still be cases of people who identify more with their country of heritage but it, rightly, becomes less and less as integration progresses and racism/xenophobia fades.

I mean are you serious?

It doesn't really matter what happened in the 1800s now does it. We are taking about grandparents and parents and even though people may 'visit a country' regularly it doesn't give them the right to represent that country.

I mean let's not even look at logic,

Are they born in that country - no
Were there their parents - no
No they live in that country - no

I'm sorry what link do they have again? Oh yeah 'how they feel', that's a feeling, not a right to represent that country.

You have to have a right to live somewhere, a right to work somewhere and the same with representing them in sport.

There is a reason the term 'plastic' is used, it's people who claim to be welsh, Irish, Scottish, English but aren't. They aren't anywhere apart from in their mind.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I mean are you serious?

It doesn't really matter what happened in the 1800s now does it. We are taking about grandparents and parents and even though people may 'visit a country' regularly it doesn't give them the right to represent that country.

I mean let's not even look at logic,

Are they born in that country - no
Were there their parents - no
No they live in that country - no

I'm sorry what link do they have again? Oh yeah 'how they feel', that's a feeling, not a right to represent that country.

You have to have a right to live somewhere, a right to work somewhere and the same with representing them in sport.

There is a reason the term 'plastic' is used, it's people who claim to be welsh, Irish, Scottish, English but aren't. They aren't anywhere apart from in their mind.

Try the 1980s...

Again, this hasn't refuted a thing I said, it just magnifies your ignorance on the subject.

It's not a case of what they feel, it's what they are. I think some enlightened scumbag said "being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse".

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Try the 1980s...

Again, this hasn't refuted a thing I said, it just magnifies your ignorance on the subject.

It's not ignorance, people shouldn't have a right to represent a country because they choose to, because they feel a link to their grandparents home, where they and their parents haven't lived.

This isn't ancestors.com this is supposed to be international rugby with the best in the country and from that country representing them.

 

[General Melchett]

I mean are you serious?

It doesn't really matter what happened in the 1800s now does it. We are taking about grandparents and parents and even though people may 'visit a country' regularly it doesn't give them the right to represent that country.

I mean let's not even look at logic,

Are they born in that country - no
Were there their parents - no
No they live in that country - no

I'm sorry what link do they have again? Oh yeah 'how they feel', that's a feeling, not a right to represent that country.

You have to have a right to live somewhere, a right to work somewhere and the same with representing them in sport.

There is a reason the term 'plastic' is used, it's people who claim to be welsh, Irish, Scottish, English but aren't. They aren't anywhere apart from in their mind.

You seem to have your own very specific idea of what the rules should be in terms of having the right to live/work/represent a country in sport and you seem to struggle with (a) the actual rules themselves and (b) the notion that others take a different view to you on what those rules should be.

I have dual citizenship and have the right to live and work in the UK and any EU country and so it's not as black and white as you make out.

It's easy for you as an England fan to say 'scrap the grandparent rule' because you have an embarrassment of riches at your disposal. Richest club league, highest number of registered players, most resources out of the home nations etc. and if your head coach got his finger out and spent less time doing consultancy work for Japanese rugby then maybe he wouldn't have lost to lowly Scotland two years on the bounce.

 

[WarriorKelv]

25 players retained by Eddie:
LP: Genge, Marler, Rodd
HK: Cowan-Dickie, George
TP: Sinckler, Stuart
LK: Itoje, Isiekwe, Ewels, Chessum
BR: Curry, Lawes, Simmonds, Dombrandt
SH: Randall, Youngs
FH: Ford, Smith
CT: Daly, Slade, Tuilagi
B3: Malins, Nowell, Steward

Imagine that Rodd and Chessum will drop out, although I'm ever so slightly expecting a 6:2.

Why have you included 6 uncapped players Eddie?

Cause they deserve to be there mate!

What Eddie really means is

We've lost players and got injuries so there just making up the numbers mate. I'd rather keep players like Stuart, Ewels and Daly than give players like Heyes, Barbeary and Hassell- Collins a chance mate.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's not ignorance, people shouldn't have a right to represent a country because they choose to, because they feel a link to their grandparents home, where they and their parents haven't lived.

This isn't ancestors.com this is supposed to be international rugby with the best in the country and from that country representing them.

If you have an Irish grandparent you can get a passport and are entitled to citizenship here. This is common too, Germany have it, Poland have it for great-grandparents.

So considering you have to live here to play for Ireland, you're really telling me that a person who is entitled to living citizenship, and likely benefitting from it because it'd be disadvantageous not to, shouldn't be eligible to play?

The idea of a choice of rugby team you play for having stricter rules on nationality than actual first world countries that are desirable to live in (quality of life indexed and all that) is bizarre to me.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

You seem to have your own very specific idea of what the rules should be in terms of having the right to live/work/represent a country in sport and you seem to struggle with (a) the actual rules themselves and (b) the notion that others take a different view to you on what those rules should be.

I have dual citizenship and have the right to live and work in the UK and any EU country and so it's not as black and white as you make out.

It's easy for you as an England fan to say 'scrap the grandparent rule' because you have an embarrassment of riches at your disposal. Richest club league, highest number of registered players, most resources out of the home nations etc. and if your head coach got his finger out and spent less time doing consultancy work for Japanese rugby then maybe he wouldn't have lost to lowly Scotland two years on the bounce.

I fully understand the rules but the discussion was around them and I was stating my disagreement with them.

The reason I don't like the rules is because players like Brad Shields, Flutey etc had no right to represent this country.

The question to ask is why would any country want someone who doesn't live there, never lived there, parents never lived there representing them? Grandparents are a tedious link.

 

[McTallshort]

When you join a England v Wales thread and it's an Irished debate about residency...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If you have an Irish grandparent you can get a passport and are entitled to citizenship here. This is common too, Germany have it, Poland have it for great-grandparents.

So considering you have to live here to play for Ireland, you're really telling me that a person who is entitled to living citizenship, and likely benefitting from it because it'd be disadvantageous not to, shouldn't be eligible to play?

The idea of a choice of rugby team you play for having stricter rules on nationality than actual first world countries that are desirable to live in (quality of life indexed and all that) is bizarre to me.

Quality of life doesn't really come in to this in the UK, there's no difference between places in the British and Irish land. There's lovely places in all counties and nasty ones too.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Quality of life doesn't really come in to this in the UK, there's no difference between places in the British and Irish land. There's lovely places in all counties and nasty ones too.

I was just pointing that out because it's not like these countries need to offer citizenship to anyone to fuel their economy, there was no comparison to the UK.

Anyway, it's clear we're not going to sway each other here so time to agree to disagree.

 

[curtbob7]

Will Stuart ahead of Joe Heyes doesn't get talked about anywhere near enough.

Bizzare decision.

 

[Scotty]

25 players retained by Eddie:
LP: Genge, Marler, Rodd
HK: Cowan-Dickie, George
TP: Sinckler, Stuart
LK: Itoje, Isiekwe, Ewels, Chessum
BR: Curry, Lawes, Simmonds, Dombrandt
SH: Randall, Youngs
FH: Ford, Smith
CT: Daly, Slade, Tuilagi
B3: Malins, Nowell, Steward

Imagine that Rodd and Chessum will drop out, although I'm ever so slightly expecting a 6:2.

So
Marler LCD Sinks
Itoje Iseikwe
Lawes Dombrandt Curry
Youngs Smith
Manu Slade
Malins Stward Nowell

George, Genge, Stuart, Chessum, Simmonds, Randall, Smith, Daly

Ewels not Launchbury?
Wait Daly but no Marchant?

 

[Jimbo]

I fully understand the rules but the discussion was around them and I was stating my disagreement with them.

The reason I don't like the rules is because players like Brad Shields, Flutey etc had no right to represent this country.

The question to ask is why would any country want someone who doesn't live there, never lived there, parents never lived there representing them? Grandparents are a tedious link.

So upto you would parents place of birth not give someone the right to represent a country?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

So upto you would parents place of birth not give someone the right to represent a country?

Parents place should (in my opinion) but not grandparents.

 

[Which Tyler]

Will Stuart ahead of Joe Heyes doesn't get talked about anywhere near enough.

Bizzare decision.

Yeah, really bizarre, 15 cap international, who's proven to have international quality (even though he's off form) gets picked ahead of someone who's not even first choice at his club

 

[Scotty]

So
Marler LCD Sinks
Itoje Iseikwe
Lawes Dombrandt Curry
Youngs Smith
Manu Slade
Malins Stward Nowell

George, Genge, Stuart, Chessum, Simmonds, Randall, Smith, Daly

Ewels not Launchbury?
Wait Daly but no Marchant?

To Quote my own post i meant Ford at 22. Not Smith starting and benching

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, really bizarre, 15 cap international, who's proven to have international quality (even though he's off form) gets picked ahead of someone who's not even first choice at his club

Yeah, I don't rate Stuart but Heyes isn't ready yet (not sure he'd do much worse, mind) - would rather he got more experience for his club rather than bench warm and/or get his confidence knocked at international level

 

[Mr Burns]

Reports that LRZ has been released back to Gloucester, guess that's some relief for our glacial back three in terms of pace.