[2022 Six Nations] England vs Wales (26/02/22)

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I’d rather they scrap the grandparent rule. How can you really have any connection to a country just because you grandparent was a resident there. If you don’t qualify from living there or parents etc it’s just BS.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Are there likely to be any surprises in the England selection? Are people assuming Lawes comes in at 6 and Tuilagi at 12 with Slade at 13. A 10-12-13 of Smith, Tuilagi and Slade isn’t something I’m looking forward to seeing and Randall off the bench to I assume?

Don’t think they’ll be too many for Wales. Just a case of whether Faletau comes straight in and, as is the case for all our games, who do we play in the center.

 

[Which Tyler]

I’d rather they scrap the grandparent rule. How can you really have any connection to a country just because you grandparent was a resident there. If you don’t qualify from living there or parents etc it’s just BS.

Because different people think differently.

Can you imagine a proud Welshman moving to London for work, but bringing his son up to be a proud Welshman?
Can you imagine that proud Welshman having a son?
Hell, in America people feel "patriotism" and define themselves from the country their ancestors left 6 or more generations ago - and no, I wouldn't go remotely that far.


I've long been an advocate of parentage knocking time off residency rules, though a vacillate on the details.
I currently favour 7 years base-period for residency.
Each grandparent knocks off 1 year, each parent knocks off 3 (but negates the relevant grandparent/s).
Each year spent in the country before the age of 18 counts double.

So both parents being the same nationality, but never set foot in the country? you've got to put in 1 years residency.
1 parent and 3 grandparents, but never set foot in the country? you've got 3 years residency to look forward to.
No blood ties, but moved for 6th form college (aged 16)? gotta wait until you're 20.

 

[ForumWhore]

I've never understood the concept of proud [nationality]. Aren't you proud of achievements? Somewhere you're born out of pure chance is not an achievement.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Just saw a really interesting stat regarding Tuilagi.
England's last home defeat with him playing was 2012.............................. but (while still impressive) that's actually only 14 games.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I’d rather they scrap the grandparent rule. How can you really have any connection to a country just because you grandparent was a resident there. If you don’t qualify from living there or parents etc it’s just BS.

It happens. I've cousins born and raised in England who only would qualify through the grandparent rule, they all support Ireland first and consider themselves Irish as much as British/English.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

It happens. I've cousins born and raised in England who only would qualify through the grandparent rule, they all support Ireland first and consider themselves Irish as much as British/English.

but from a rugby perspective I think you would say they should play for England right? given your U20 feelings

 

[General Melchett]

Because different people think differently.

Can you imagine a proud Welshman moving to London for work, but bringing his son up to be a proud Welshman?
Can you imagine that proud Welshman having a son?
Hell, in America people feel "patriotism" and define themselves from the country their ancestors left 6 or more generations ago - and no, I wouldn't go remotely that far.


I've long been an advocate of parentage knocking time off residency rules, though a vacillate on the details.
I currently favour 7 years base-period for residency.
Each grandparent knocks off 1 year, each parent knocks off 3 (but negates the relevant grandparent/s).
Each year spent in the country before the age of 18 counts double.

So both parents being the same nationality, but never set foot in the country? you've got to put in 1 years residency.
1 parent and 3 grandparents, but never set foot in the country? you've got 3 years residency to look forward to.
No blood ties, but moved for 6th form college (aged 16)? gotta wait until you're 20.

I like how you started your point about Americans with 'Hell'

If they scrap the grandparent rule then the SRU will have no choice but to charter flights of South African and Kiwi girls (preferably of good rugby stock) over to Edinburgh and Glasgow to procreate with the locals.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

but from a rugby perspective I think you would say they should play for England right? given your U20 feelings

Not if they chose to play for Ireland u20, I'm not big on the whole development argument, individual choice once eligible and I think a grandparents should play a role. In this case it'd be 4 Irish grandparents so I really don't see how you could fairly deny a person the right to choose Ireland in a case like this.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

so I really don't see how you could fairly deny a person the right to choose Ireland in a case like this

Who said anything about fair?
When I take over as World Rugby Supreme Overlord I will rule the sport with an iron fist

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

the rugby forum has announced its candidacy for WR presidency

 

[Reiser99]

the rugby forum has announced its candidacy for WR presidency

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

All this ‘proud Welshman’ feeling ‘Irish’ etc is all BS. International recognition shouldn’t be a choice. The plastic welsh and Irish who’s parents and them have always lived in England shouldn’t have any right to play for the counties of their grandparents. They are in no way welsh or Irish.

The question has to be asked, if they and their parents are born and raised in one country what gives them the right to represent another? A county they have never lived in, nor their parents.

What right should they have, however much they hate it they’re English. Same for any other 3 generation person in a different country.

 

[Which Tyler]

All this ‘proud Welshman’ feeling ‘Irish’ etc is all BS. International recognition shouldn’t be a choice. The plastic welsh and Irish who’s parents and them have always lived in England shouldn’t have any right to play for the counties of their grandparents. They are in no way welsh or Irish.

The question has to be asked, if they and their parents are born and raised in one country what gives them the right to represent another? A county they have never lived in, nor their parents.

What right should they have, however much they hate it they’re English. Same for any other 3 generation person in a different country.

I thought I covered that

"Because different people think differently"

I must admit - I'd never considered international rugby to be a "right"

 

[BrokenWing]

Mike Brown said not a single Welsh player would get into the England side. That should be up there in the changing rooms. Lol.

I’m sure Mike just meant on the grounds of them being Welsh….

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I thought I covered that

"Because different people think differently"

I must admit - I'd never considered international rugby to be a "right"

It’s not about thinking differently though, it’s a privilege and there must be a right to play for that country.

Why should anyone who hasn’t lived in a country, nor their parents, ever get to represent them?

Everyone has their own ideas but there must be a right to play for a country. Watching England I’ve been offended several times when players with no right have rocked up in an England shirt. Like R Flutey, he had no right to take that short or wear that jersey. He didn’t belong and was a fraud. No right at all.

There are many other examples but being a proud grandchild of Celtic decent isn’t enough of a justification for me.

 

[BrokenWing]

Come and see the violence inherent in the system… Help! Help! I’m being repressed!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've never understood the concept of proud [nationality]. Aren't you proud of achievements? Somewhere you're born out of pure chance is not an achievement.

I'll have you know being born in Wales is definitely an achievement. Have you seen what they call hospitals?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'll have you know being born in Wales is definitely an achievement. Have you seen what they call hospitals?

Don’t you mean vets…….

 

[BrokenWing]

Watching England I’ve been offended several times when players with no right have rocked up in an England shirt.

There are several Englishmen I’ve felt like that towards to be fair.