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(2022 Rugby Championship - Round 2) - South Africa v New Zealand (13/8/2022)

Le Frére Alpha said:
I think Mo'unga is a good shout with this current team. BB works with a pack in charge of the game. He can't ploy his teams way to victory when he only has parity or worse.

Jordie at 12 with BB at 15 is probably worth a shot though, not sure what they're trying to achieve with Havili
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When has mounga been in a winning team whose pack wasn't in charge? Mounga lost to australia and argentina, then seriously struggled against Italy . Also had no impact for the crusaders against the lions. All of that was due to a combination of rush defence and a lack of front foot ball - Exactly what we are going to get here.
Welsh Exile said:
Nah, just remembered. It's Liam Squire I'm thinking about. What happened to him? He's probably really old now anyway but I thought he was a beast.
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Retired due to mental health issues. He was picked in an all black squad at one point and said no thanks. Then played a bit for tasman then disappeared.
 
I'm pretty much a Doubting Thomas on Mounga against a non-inferior pack too, but think he does have the potential to surprise. To my mind BB is not the problem with the ABs when they have someone else able to take place kicks. Dropping BB here is just a desperate last throw of the dice and I expect a pretty meek performance by the AB players if they don't get out to a good start. The performance needs to be bad enough to make retaining Foster impossible, and the players will know that.

"Finish him!"
 
BB was the best NZ player last weekend. The only player actually taking matters into his own hands and doing what people expect him to do and everyone struggling to stop it.

The fact that he is dropped sums up what is wrong with Foster's leadership. The clarity in thought is out the window. Mounga although arguably one of the best 10s in the world represents a gamble/hail mary by the coach, don't mistake me I think he is great and would walk into a Springbok side, but BB was your best player you idiot
 
To me its about balance. A first five who doesn't have a direct running game needs a second five who does. Yeah mounga plays with havili at the crusaders, but they have front foot ball in every game and there are no super rugby sides with anything near the kind and quality of rush defence that the springboks, or Ireland, or france, or even Italy bring. It mightn't be so bad if the center had a strong direct running game, but that's not the case here either.

Clearly foster thinks we can go around or between the boks; given coaching is his full time job he can't be completely clueless, so I'm holding out hope that his vision will finally click into place. Hopefully mounga will have his best test yet.

At the moment you've got a disconnected team that is getting more disconnected by the week as their confidence dwindles and they are so anxious they are unable to connect with each other and focus fully on what they are doing. I can see that maybe mounga will revitalize the team.
 
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ChicagoKid said:
When was the last time Richie was in test match form? 2019?
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He's always in test match form when the forwards dominate - so last year against fiji, tonga, first test against Australia, USA. Not good against france, Italy, first test against Argentina, second test against Australia, england in World Cup. So he has started in 4 of our last 9 losses plus a terrible game against Italy, Bb has started in the other 5 losses.
 
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Umaga's Witness said:
When has mounga been in a winning team whose pack wasn't in charge? Mounga lost to australia and argentina, then seriously struggled against Italy . Also had no impact for the crusaders against the lions. All of that was due to a combination of rush defence and a lack of front foot ball - Exactly what we are going to get here.
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It might be redundant at the moment under Foster but I would rate Mo'unga as a far better systems player than BB. The obvious problem being that Foster doesn't have an effective system.

I reckon he'll be the man for the "rebuild" ahead of BB anyway, reliable systems and a handful of changes (probably less than what the average fan wants) will be the most likely process to follow Foster. Especially if Schmidt is given a run until the end of the RWC rather than going straight to Foster.
 
Umaga's Witness said:
When has mounga been in a winning team whose pack wasn't in charge? Mounga lost to australia and argentina, then seriously struggled against Italy . Also had no impact for the crusaders against the lions. All of that was due to a combination of rush defence and a lack of front foot ball - Exactly what we are going to get here.

Retired due to mental health issues. He was picked in an all black squad at one point and said no thanks. Then played a bit for tasman then disappeared.
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Fair play to him, that couldn't of been an easy decision for him and one I'm sure most people wouldn't make. Shame for the game, though. He could've been a world class player in my opinion.
 
I still think NZ are in it with a good shout but we'll see how it plays out. I just cannot see us suddenly translating pressure into points this match if we havn't managed it in 2 years. And I can't imagine all (as in every single one!) the little 50/50's going against NZ again in terms of the bounce of the ball and a last ditch ankle tap etc like it did last week. I just think teams like SA, Ireland, France are in a relatively better place and England and Aus are in the same place they were. Its just that NZ are a bit lower relatively speaking though they aren't down in the dumps IMO- just not untouchable like they used to be back when you'd have 10 odd Ab players in a world XV.
 
TRF_stormer2010 said:
I still think NZ are in it with a good shout but we'll see how it plays out. I just cannot see us suddenly translating pressure into points this match if we havn't managed it in 2 years. And I can't imagine all (as in every single one!) the little 50/50's going against NZ again in terms of the bounce of the ball and a last ditch ankle tap etc like it did last week. I just think teams like SA, Ireland, France are in a relatively better place and England and Aus are in the same place they were. Its just that NZ are a bit lower relatively speaking though they aren't down in the dumps IMO- just not untouchable like they used to be back when you'd have 10 odd Ab players in a world XV.
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I don't get this sort of mentality with some Springbok fans. The All Blacks have lost 5 out of the last 6, most of them convincingly, the Boks have beaten them on the last two occasions, just last week by 16 points. Finally, this game is being played at fortress Ellis Park, where far better NZ teams have been turned over. Last week wasn't down to luck, SA played them off the park.
 
WaterboySA said:
Don't agree with this. That is EXACTLY how we won the first test. Pressure = points.
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It really should. Maybe I can answer both below...
OllyM97 said:
I don't get this sort of mentality with some Springbok fans. The All Blacks have lost 5 out of the last 6, most of them convincingly, the Boks have beaten them on the last two occasions, just last week by 16 points. Finally, this game is being played at fortress Ellis Park, where far better NZ teams have been turned over. Last week wasn't down to luck, SA played them off the park.
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The way we dominated though for a 16 point margin against a team that otherwise were't in the game though you'd expect a 57-0 reversal is what I am getting at.

Not a single one of our tries were constructed. Then there was a drop goal and a couple of 3 pointers early off of the scrum.

That 16 point margin flatters to deceive. Don't get me wrong, we were good for it. My point is more in the line of it should really have been more with the amount of dominance we had and the luck was on our side as well.
 
South Africa by more than the previous game, in a match that will have Foster lose his job, OR South Africa win by 6 with Pollard kicking 4 penalties.

unrated said:
BB was the best NZ player last weekend. The only player actually taking matters into his own hands and doing what people expect him to do and everyone struggling to stop it.

The fact that he is dropped sums up what is wrong with Foster's leadership. The clarity in thought is out the window. Mounga although arguably one of the best 10s in the world represents a gamble/hail mary by the coach, don't mistake me I think he is great and would walk into a Springbok side, but BB was your best player you idiot
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Finally did what he's been picked for, for the last 4 years...
 
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Le Frére Alpha said:
It might be redundant at the moment under Foster but I would rate Mo'unga as a far better systems player than BB. The obvious problem being that Foster doesn't have an effective system.

I reckon he'll be the man for the "rebuild" ahead of BB anyway, reliable systems and a handful of changes (probably less than what the average fan wants) will be the most likely process to follow Foster. Especially if Schmidt is given a run until the end of the RWC rather than going straight to Foster.
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I can see that. Re - Schmidt, he has said he is not interested in doing full time coaching ever again.
 
The vibe here in Joburg is nuts. I have never seen so many Bok jerseys everywhere. That drive in the bus to the stadium is gonna be a big on the mental buttons for the Abs.
 
This is going to be a very intense game; effort from the AB will be even higher this game than last week, and for SA they'll try their usual to shut them down, backed by a very vocal crowd. Should be mega
 

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